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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    Multiple domams what'd you think? Or other?

    A friend of mine. Yes it really is a friend. He has a single domain in the mortgage loan biz. His domain name is some random name - not a exact name search. Thus biz is hard to get on page one. Much like web design. He was interested in being number one for a particular search amoung others. He could do a doorway site and link back to his original to pick up biz. Aside from changing his original domain (which I don't think he wants to do - to attached to it) I'm thinking his best bet would be to simply create multiple separate sites all with the same contact info. DIFFERENT CONTENT HOWEVER. I would do it via a form so by some small chance google doesn't see the same info. He is currently like on page ten so he has nothing to loose in my book. If he was already on page one then I wouldn't change much. Actually I would have different emails for each so I new which doorway was entered. He could sit tight and do nothing and only get all biz from referrals. Or he could do something along this lines and triple his biz from exact name searches. Anyway... What do you think? If his goal was to be number one on page one and he refused to give up his original name my idea would he best huh? Ideas? Discussions? It's a very common concern so I thought I get some talk gong on it. I would like to do the same for one of my sites. I have some exact name search domains that I could do it with. But I already have too much to loose to its not a safe bet. For for him... Maybe... If he were to do it I would have each on its own hosting account so dif IPs. Thoughts? Everyone wants this. Agree or not this is a good way to accomplish said goal.

    Better thread than what's your favorite "terd" huh. Terd would prob get more responses though. More terds.

  2. #2
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    I'm not clear why you think this is a good strategy. Are you suggesting that he should create multiple sites simply in the hope that one of them might - by luck - happen to get a high ranking? That doesn't seem likely. And would you optimise the sites for different keywords, or for the same? Either way, it's hard to see the benefit.

    You said that the existing domain name is just a "random name". Are you suggesting that it would be better if it was his company name? Or a name that includes the keywords that people might search for (especially the word "mortgage" presumably)? If so, and if you consider that important, it would be simpler to register a new domain, based on your optimal keywords, and redirect the old domain to it. His customers could still use the domain name that you say he is attached to, and that name would retain the benefits of any incoming links that it has gained. There would be no benefit if registering multiple domains for that purpose.

    You should also be aware that mortgages and loans is one of the most competitive businesses for search engine rankings. Frankly, juggling with domain names is not going to put him ahead of the competition. What he needs is a unique selling proposition - something to differentiate himself from the thousands of other companies in that field. That could be as simple as adding the name of the city in which he operates (assuming he is aiming for a local market). Once you know what that unique proposition is, you will be able to optimise the site in that direction.

    To sum up, I suggest you tell your friend: (i) Don't over-obsess with the domain name; a well-chosen name can provide some SEO benefits, but it is just one of many signals that the search engines use to decide ranking; and (ii) Before he even starts to think about search engines, he must find a way of making his business stand out from the crowd; simply optimising a site for words like "mortgage" and "loan" is not likely to be a recipe for success.

    Mike

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikl View Post
    I'm not clear why you think this is a good strategy. Are you suggesting that he should create multiple sites simply in the hope that one of them might - by luck - happen to get a high ranking? That doesn't seem likely. And would you optimise the sites for different keywords, or for the same? Either way, it's hard to see the benefit.

    You said that the existing domain name is just a "random name". Are you suggesting that it would be better if it was his company name? Or a name that includes the keywords that people might search for (especially the word "mortgage" presumably)? If so, and if you consider that important, it would be simpler to register a new domain, based on your optimal keywords, and redirect the old domain to it. His customers could still use the domain name that you say he is attached to, and that name would retain the benefits of any incoming links that it has gained. There would be no benefit if registering multiple domains for that purpose.

    You should also be aware that mortgages and loans is one of the most competitive businesses for search engine rankings. Frankly, juggling with domain names is not going to put him ahead of the competition. What he needs is a unique selling proposition - something to differentiate himself from the thousands of other companies in that field. That could be as simple as adding the name of the city in which he operates (assuming he is aiming for a local market). Once you know what that unique proposition is, you will be able to optimise the site in that direction.

    To sum up, I suggest you tell your friend: (i) Don't over-obsess with the domain name; a well-chosen name can provide some SEO benefits, but it is just one of many signals that the search engines use to decide ranking; and (ii) Before he even starts to think about search engines, he must find a way of making his business stand out from the crowd; simply optimising a site for words like "mortgage" and "loan" is not likely to be a recipe for success.

    Mike
    Thanks for your input. However I do not agree with some. Like it or not google awards much more weight to keyword driven domains. Aside from a well aged domain and good content, a keyword domain still is a easy way to top google. Yes of course I think he should of done that from the start. But he didn't and doesn't want to let go of the domain or biz name. Neither of which hold any weight amoung the thousands (as you say and I agree) other dime a dozen mortgage sites. I was just brain storming ways to gather biz for said keywords.

    ...and it wouldn't by luck. If you do it correct it's not that hard. I don't do or suggest black hat. I'm all about having a better product. Just thinking... And yes each site would be optimized for differnt keywords.

  4. #4
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    Well, you're probably right that keyword domains are beneficial, although I'm not sure just how important they are, compared to all the other factors that Google etc. use to decide ranking. But let's accept that you are correct on that point.

    But I still don't see why you are suggesting creating multiple domains. And why would those multiple domains be optimised for different keywords? If there are certain keywords that you think will drive traffic to the site, why spread them across multiple sites? Isn't it better to focus them all on the same site?

    Anyway, that's my opinion. If anyone has any other views, it will be interesting to hear them.

    Mike

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    That's my view as well. I put all my attention into one site. And make it a content monster. But I've seen others do the opposite and spread it around multiple sites with great success. If you make them all doorway pages and link the user back to your "real" site then that can very easy be seen as spam and get you penalized. In my experience it's very difficult to be ranked high for multiple keyword/searches. If you can rank high for a certain keyword google seems to only a lot you one or two terms. Google seems to like saying this site is the authority about this. And this other site about this and so on. Very very rarely have I seen someone be an authority on all search terms for any given biz type. On the other hand if you were to put mucho energy into 3 sites - all with different content, domains, keywords, titles, and h1s - I could see those sites doing well. In short google definitely seems to award a lazer focused site. Whereas if it's a site about everything a industry has to offer you might instead rank on the second or third page for each term. If I had nothing to loose (aka my site ranking was shitt anyway) and I needed to make more money, this would possibly be a successful model. I have seen many do it. Look up RV Wholesalers. They quite literally have a few hundred sites. Unless they have changed it all their sites were doorway sites. But when I was looking for RVs a few years ago they completely dominated every search and in every city. So much so it was irritating me. I was looking for comparisons at the time and was having a hard time finding them because of their utter domination. This is the extreme. It could be done but dialed down considerably. So much so I'm sure panda or other pounded them.

  6. #6
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    You've made some good points. But we need to keep in mind that Google doesn't rank sites, nor even URLs. It ranks pages. If a page ranks well for a given keyword, that has no effect on how well another page will rank for different keywords, whether or not the pages are in the same site.

    That's probably an over-simplification, but I think it's basically true. If so, it's another argument against multiple sites.

    But I agree with your first point. It's better to put all your effort into one site, and make it a "content monster" (nice expression). That would be my gut feeling as well (although I'm open to being proved wrong).

    Mike

  7. #7
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    I think that Google would be skeptical of numerous sites that all had the same contact info. I think they would consider that webspam.

    Also, Google is very openly moving in the direction of supporting companies that brand themselves. This would mean that a domain like "HenrysTools.com" may actually rank better than "BirminghamALTools.com" (unless of course, Birmingham Tools is the company name). Google's algorithm is now smart enough to understand what webpages are about regardless of the keywords the author wants to rank for.
    Levy's Fine Jewelry- buyers and sellers of modern, antique, and estate jewelry

  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    True true. I believe as you that pages are PR'd independently. But a forum on yelps site would carry much more authority than any other forum for same search. Basically a home pages mojo carries over I believe to its sub pages. Or maybe it's as simple as a established site already has rank so it's added pages rise to the top much quicker. Prob a little bit of both.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alabamaseo View Post
    I think that Google would be skeptical of numerous sites that all had the same contact info. I think they would consider that webspam.

    Also, Google is very openly moving in the direction of supporting companies that brand themselves. This would mean that a domain like "HenrysTools.com" may actually rank better than "BirminghamALTools.com" (unless of course, Birmingham Tools is the company name). Google's algorithm is now smart enough to understand what webpages are about regardless of the keywords the author wants to rank for.
    Yes seperate contact info a must or a form. Yes you are correct google brought its algorithm down a few notches in regards to exact keyword domains. But it still carries more weight . Sort of like css. If they both have a class (same amount of quality content) then google looks to its parent id (the exact name domain). Just another factor no dif than a quality title. In my book it goes in this order of importance. Let's just put content number one for arguments sake. It goes... content > domain > title > h1 > metas.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PicnicTutorials View Post
    Yes seperate contact info a must or a form. Yes you are correct google brought its algorithm down a few notches in regards to exact keyword domains. But it still carries more weight . Sort of like css. If they both have a class (same amount of quality content) then google looks to its parent id (the exact name domain). Just another factor no dif than a quality title. In my book it goes in this order of importance. Let's just put content number one for arguments sake. It goes... content > domain > title > h1 > metas.
    I believe that you are vastly underappreciating the complexity of this NEW algorithm (not altered, new) that a team of some of the most intelligent people on the planet have dedicated their lives to perfecting for over a decade.

    I think their new algorithm is much more complex than simply a ranking system based on a few variables and keywords. I do not think that keywords are a factor at all. It is my understanding the algorithm actually understands the material on the page in order to determine the best result for the user.

    I do not think the keyword heirarchy that you listed is relevant to today's SEO world. Today, Google supports well branded sites with good content and a strong userbase.
    Levy's Fine Jewelry- buyers and sellers of modern, antique, and estate jewelry

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by alabamaseo View Post
    I think their new algorithm is much more complex than simply a ranking system based on a few variables and keywords. I do not think that keywords are a factor at all. It is my understanding the algorithm actually understands the material on the page in order to determine the best result for the user. .
    I think you are completely correct, although I disagree that it is completely new. The algorithms have, for several years, understood the content of the page, rather than simply the text. What they've achieved recently is to bring that understanding to a greatly improved level of perfection.

    Mike

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    Branding maybe. But that goes against the fact that every tom dick and hairy mom and pop shop has been getting much more respect lately. Userbase NO. That's Alexa's domain. Not googles. Yes obviously it's more complex than a few things. But that's on googles side. On the web page side there really isn't that many more things than just a few things. Aside form seo and internent marketing what I listed above is pretty much in a nut shell all there is to a site. And yes quality content which is not keyword stuffed and has been written with humans in mind and not bots is a given. All things equal (aka content) *then* factor in all my above statements. I do appreciate the diolague though. Fun and educational web banter.

    ...and yes I do agree with you that google awards smartly written words to stupid ones that say the same thing. I have read that too.


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