Useful HTML elements that 90% of all developers are unaware of

[Paul_C]

Off Topic:

ascii art is a "perversion"

Man, what happened to you? Did ascii art pour sugar in your gas-tank or something?

[beetle]

Off Topic:

ascii art is a "perversion" (something used for something other than its original purpouse).

I suppose then making art and sculpture from aluminum cans or industrial steel or just regular junk is a 'perversion' too [img]images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

A word does come to my mind when I see these things, including ASCII art, and that word isn't peversion, it's creativity.

[vgarcia]

I suppose then making art and sculpture from aluminum cans or industrial steel or just regular junk is a 'perversion' too [img]images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

A word does come to my mind when I see these things, including ASCII art, and that word isn't peversion, it's creativity.

But even with that there's a fine line isn't there? Tables are supposed to be used for tabular data only; is a layout table a perversion, or simply creative?

[beetle]

Yes, vgarcia, but we are talking about using text to create art. Art can be anything, which is why an object's original purpose is irrelevant.

See the difference?

[redux]

ok, are we talking about art or about standards-based code (looks at thread title again, just to make sure) ? because if we're talking art, this discussion could probably go on forever, as any bad, inappropriate or otherwise wrong use of tags can be justified as art. heck, IE only proprietary extensions to html and css can be called art as well...

[redux]

Yes, vgarcia, but we are talking about using text to create art. Art can be anything, which is why an object's original purpose is irrelevant.

See the difference?

no difference, because following that reasoning, using a table to create an artistic layout is just as valid.

[redux]

I suppose then making art and sculpture from aluminum cans or industrial steel or just regular junk is a 'perversion' too [img]images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

no need to roll your eyes, because the answer is yes
and for those not in the know (and i thought i would have made it clear by adding my ad-hoc definition in brackets), "perversion" does not just carry negative sexual connotations...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=perversion

diverting from the true intent or object; [...] a turning or applying to a wrong end or use

and by that definition any "non standard" use of tags (e.g. using structural tags to achieve a visual effect) is a perversion.

[Paul_C]

ok, are we talking about art or about standards-based code (looks at thread title again, just to make sure) ? because if we're talking art, this discussion could probably go on forever, as any bad, inappropriate or otherwise wrong use of tags can be justified as art.

You're confusing content and markup. The tangent we went off on was marking up ascii art with <pre>, not that <pre> was art.

[Zoef]

Considering all of the above, this thread is art.

Let's sell it to the MoMA.

Rik

[anode]

ok, are we talking about art or about standards-based code (looks at thread title again, just to make sure) ?

Does the standards-based code live in a vacuum? Are we only allowed to use it to mark up pedantic opinions about standards-based code?

Whether ASCII art is "art" or not (I'd call it more of a craft, personally), it exists, it exists on the web, and as a consequence of that, it has to be marked-up by something or other. There is no <ascii-art> element, thus the <pre> element, with its connotation of "the text inside me has significant white space" is a good choice, IMHO. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but <p> is used in much the same way (is everything marked up with <p> really a paragraph? What's a paragraph anyway, but typographic convention, doesn'n't that make it presentational?) Not to mention, of course, <div> and <span>.

[redux]

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but <p> is used in much the same way (is everything marked up with <p> really a paragraph?

well, that's a perversion of the tag as well then.

What's a paragraph anyway, but typographic convention, doesn'n't that make it presentational?) Not to mention, of course, <div> and <span>.

in a structural sense, paragraph denotes a "chunk" of text -although the W3C are now extending it to mean

XHTML2's paragraphs represent the conceptual idea of a paragraph, and so may contain lists, blockquotes, pre's and tables as well as inline text

.

true, convention has it that paragraphs begin on new lines, and usually indented. heck, the "graph" part of the word indicates that there is a visual, graphic element to it. so true, paragraphs as such have presentational connotations. divs and spans, however, do not, imho...as there is no "burden" of visual convention for them.

oh, as for ascii art, this struck me as interesting

Also note that there is no normative requirement that the <pre> element be rendered in a monospace font (although this is the default rendering), nor that text wrapping be disabled.

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-block-text.html#sec_8.8.

[anode]

oh, as for ascii art, this struck me as interesting

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-block-text.html#sec_8.8.

Good thing that's in XHTML2 which will meet about as much success as VRML

[jofa]

Off Topic:


New element needed:
<perversions>

[vgarcia]

Off Topic:


New element needed:
<perversions>

possibly

[redux]

Off Topic:


New element needed:
<perversions>

Off Topic:

to go with a new doctype

<!DOCTYPE artml PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD ArtML 1.0 Strictly Art//EN"
	   "http://www.asciiart.com/artml-strictlu_art.dtd">

[vgarcia]

Off Topic:

to go with a new doctype

<!DOCTYPE artml PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD ArtML 1.0 Strictly Art//EN"
	   "http://www.asciiart.com/artml-strictlu_art.dtd">

Off Topic:


Will there be a transitional doctype as well, for those of us that wish to use smilies for layout?

[Zoef]

Off Topic:


Don't forget to add the correct meta information:

<meta name="pervert" value="Rik" />

[Maher]

Well..

Imagine that you are creating a web form which is lengthy and designed in a special way... and you want the user to logically jump from one input field to another in the way you want, what can you do in order to control his "Tab" clicks?

Here comes the real benifit of the input tag's property "tabindex"!

It's similar to the VB form control.. when using it, you will have a 100% control over the tab clicks.. and the user will go to the next field you desire!

For Example:

---------------------

<form action="">
<p>
<label>User Name
<input type="text" name="textfield2" tabindex="1">
</label>
</p>
<p>
<label>Email
<input type="text" name="textfield" tabindex="2">
</label>
</p>
<p>
<label>Submit
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit" tabindex="3">
</label>
</p>
</form>

---------------------

Most of the web designers/developers doesn't use this property.. try it!

[Zenith]

No one has mentioned <nobr> ? Or is it so common?

Lifesaver anyway when you must force text & images & whatever in one line and you don't have to do this:

there&nbsp;is&nbsp;no&nbsp;line&nbsp;break

-->
<nobr>ther is no line break</nobr>

-Z-

[TheOriginalH]

Great thread

I am pleased to report that having read from start to finish the only tag I was unaware of/have never used was Redux's "<q>". Shame it's buggy 'cos I'd have loads of uses for it otherwise - why is is buggy exactly?

[redux]

i think it's because nobr is deprecated in favour of using CSS' "white-space: nowrap;"

[redux]

why is is buggy exactly?

coz it don't work...
IE throws a monkey in the works... http://diveintomark.org/archives/200...the_q_tag.html

[jofa]

Yep, tabindex is a nice attribute

Example of bad, and very common, tabbing order in a form:
name > password > "forgot password?" > submit
User enters name, tab, enters password, tab, and finally press Enter...


<nobr> ?
...element "NOBR" undefined...

[Hierophant]

Great thread

I am pleased to report that having read from start to finish the only tag I was unaware of/have never used was Redux's "<q>". Shame it's buggy 'cos I'd have loads of uses for it otherwise - why is is buggy exactly?

I think it is buggy because Microsoft doesn't support it properly.

[vgarcia]

<nobr> was never part of any HTML standard, but IE and Netscape supported it, hence its wide use. The white-space property in CSS is much better suited to the task IMO.