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Thread: Fair?

  1. #1
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Take a look at the source of the frontpage of microsoft.com .
    At the top you'll see this piece of script:
    Code:
    </style> <script language="JavaScript"> <!--
    	var userAgent = navigator.userAgent;
    	var MSIEIndex = userAgent.indexOf("MSIE");
    	if (userAgent.indexOf("Win")  != -1 && userAgent.indexOf("MSIE") != -1 && userAgent.substring((MSIEIndex + 5),(MSIEIndex + 6)) > 4)
    		window.location.replace("ms.htm");
    //--> </script> </HEAD>
    This makes the dropdown menu only appear if you're using an IE browser, so with any other browser it's a pain to navigate the site.

    IMHO this ain't fair...

    BTW I found about this at this link:
    http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...hreadid=275328
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  2. #2
    I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack! Fluffykins's Avatar
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    That's kind of nasty!

    It's no wonder Bill Gates was sued for trying to monopolise the Internet Browser market.

    Ady
    v-technologies - Freelance Goodness.

  3. #3
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    You all do the same thing.

    IF you are using some complicated DHTML that is only supported by IE then you redirect other browsers to something else, its common practice, why do you make such a big deal out of it when Microsoft does it?

    Chris

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    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    Microsoft.com is Microsoft's property. They have a right to develop the webpage anyway they see fit.

    This may have been necessary for one of two reasons:
    • To take advantage of features in MS IE that other browsers don't have.
    • To work around bugs in other browsers. It is no secret that Netscape's browsers often display pages incorrectly.

    Either one of those would work for the first definition of "fair" at http://www.m-w.com which is "pleasing to the eye or mind..."

    It may just be to reward their more loyal customers.

    Regardless of the reasons, however, it is their site.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aspen
    You all do the same thing.

    IF you are using some complicated DHTML that is only supported by IE then you redirect other browsers to something else, its common practice, why do you make such a big deal out of it when Microsoft does it?

    Chris
    Exactly.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    At microsoft.com they're using an uncomplicated DHTML menu which could easily be done with another DHTML menu that works in both IE and NS.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    If that is true, what would be the point? Why would anybody want to make their site work better for a competitor's product?
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jamesglewisf
    If that is true, what would be the point? Why would anybody want to make their site work better for a competitor's product?
    It has nothing to do with the browser people are using. It's about the people themselves: the (future) customers of MS. You're not excluding people from your site just because they're using Netscape/Opera/IE?

    It's just discrimination, but this time it's about the browser people are using.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    You are assuming that you know their intent. It may have been because of browser incompatibilities. Since you don't know their intent, you are simply making assumptions about it.

    I think you are throwing around the word discrimination too easily. If someone treats me in a manner that I don't like, does that mean they are discriminating? Not necessarily.

    According to www.m-w.com, discriminate, in the sense you are using it, means "to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit." In this case, the individual merit argument could easily go in favor of Microsoft since many people would argue that they make a better browser with more features.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  10. #10
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    I don't work at all to make my site compatible for non-MS browsers. Why? Is it discrimination? Nope. I just don't want to incur the extra expense of testing it on other browsers when 99.61% of my visitors use IE.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jamesglewisf
    I don't work at all to make my site compatible for non-MS browsers. Why? Is it discrimination? Nope. I just don't want to incur the extra expense of testing it on other browsers when 99.61% of my visitors use IE.
    What you do is totally different from what MS is doing; you just don't care whether your site works or doesn't work in any other browser than IE, while MS intentionally keeps people with an other browser than IE from using the drop-down menu.

    Maybe I was wrong about calling this discrimination, but I still don't think it's fair. Every decent webmaster would try to make his/her site as compatible as possible, else you'll lose a lot of (potentional) customers and worse.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  12. #12
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Actually if you look at the code for the drop down menu, it won't work in Netscape.

    This is code written by Microsoft programmers, not some cut and paste javascript.

    Microsoft uses relatively positioned <DIV>s and Dynamically created <DIV>s neither of which are scriptable in a Commercially Released Product distributed by Netscape Communications Inc.

    The reason they are doing this is because their toolbars are multi-lingual. This enhances the reach to more users around the world. The toolbar you see is set by the Language your character encoding is set to.

    Add to that dynamic content, graphic and font sizing depending on the browsers resolution and you have gotten an amazing script.

    About the only thing Netscape can do is recognize that it is in Javascript. While it might be in Microsoft's best interest to not exclude other browsers. To make this script cross-browser compatible would incur a lot of cost and testing.

    If it was found out the Microsoft so much as downloaded a copy of Netscape Navigator, and it was found out. People would blow it out of proportion like they did with Hotmail (which is happily running on Win2K now) and other previous incidents.

    People need to get all the facts before they start accusing companies of Discrimination against other software users.

    If I was the owner of Microsoft, I would make 99% of the website available only to registered owners of my software so consider yourself lucky.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks for your explanation Wayne! I understand it now and will stop 'complaining'
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.


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