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  1. #1
    Bored One boredboi's Avatar
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    hi all.

    finally... netscape 6 is released, although it seems many people still get problems downloading it. My setting up of netscape 6 was smooth-sailing (lucky me).

    The problem is, with all these problems, would people still stick with Communicator 4.7? If so, doesnt' that mean that web page designing just got WORSE instead of better?

    Now we have to code for IE, netscape and Netscape 6. Is it worth coding for IE and netscape 6, while leaving the people who choose to remain with Communicator 4.7 behind?

    All comments appreciated... Thanks.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru
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    Ho-hum...I'm not too impressed with Netscape 6. Use Mozilla builds I say, which currently has some major bugs fixed which made it into Netscape 6.

    As for what we build for, the Gecko engine seem to be more similiar to IE5 than Netscape 4.xx, so I guess it will take a slight extra effort to produce a set of code which works with IE and Netscape 6, and maybe another set to cater for Netscape 4.xx.

    [Edited by duckie on 11-15-2000 at 12:49 PM]

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I think already its not essential to code for NS 4.7...the stats for a site I run show that 98.6% of all my visitors this month so far use IE4/5/5.5, and just under 1% use NS 4.7. The other 0.5% use IE 3 and others.
    Yes the site works perfectly in NS and I wouldn't be satisified if it didn't but I don't think its as big an issue as people make it out to be
    Also, I think (hope??!!) that any site that is fine in IE 5.5/5 will also be fine in NS 6...hopefully at least some of the compatibility probs will have gone

  4. #4
    SitePoint Guru
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    Originally posted by James
    Also, I think (hope??!!) that any site that is fine in IE 5.5/5 will also be fine in NS 6...hopefully at least some of the compatibility probs will have gone
    Well sadly that won't be true in all cases due to IE's ability to parse bad code.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Netscape 6 is just too slow to be true. When you want to open a new window, you just sit there waiting for a few seconds pondering why nothing is happening - no matter how quick your pc is - until the new window pops up.

    Another very user-unfriendly thing I saw was that, when you click the address bar, the URL in it is not automatically selected as an IE, which made it much handier to type in a new URL - no hassles with backspace and delete, just write over it ...

    Just my $.02 though ...

    Have a great day,

    Mike
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    I had a few problems myself. I took the tour and ended up at a page that said 'download latest version of Netscape' and ended up with Netscape 4.08. I didn't care for their 'MS' style of trying to force me to register and installing icons and shortcuts that I specifically chose not to have.

    I am also having trouble cutting text from certain pages and I am not able to paste anything into the address bar.

    IMHO, compatibility issues will get better. Not all NS4.x users will switch, but I'm sure most will within a year, thus, the small Netscape market share will only shrink.

    In addition, I think the better adherance to standards by Netscape 6 and IE 5/5.5 will add more clout to the standards movement forcing other browsers to get in line or provide easy to impliment alternatives.

    P.S. I am using NS6 now and it is still trying to download this page.
    Westmich
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  8. #8
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    I didn't care for their 'MS' style of trying to force me to register and installing icons and shortcuts that I specifically chose not to have.
    I have never had to register at Microsoft to install and run the full IE browser, only for the MSN one.

    Never had a problem with shortcuts on IE products either. I have one on my desktop toolbar and that is it.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    im actually like that, when you click address bar, it doesnt select all url string. But double click does. I use to hate it when I need to add a new path it select's hole thing, and double clicking end's up on the beggining, and then you have to move cursor...****
    Im on Linux, and Netscrap the only 'normal' browser we got . It's soooooo slow, and eats lotsa memory (???), but
    it's displays forms better, and supports CSS1 (full), and some other good things, which will make me use it probably.
    But i cant believe how slow this thing is!!!
    Also skins I've downloaded, and i like this future a lot.
    kinda refreshing i think.
    Still lacks with cyrillic fonts like 4.x does. Have to tweak it propbably a lot. Also I screws up a Java plug-in installation... some other things .
    Of course I prefer to have IE on Linux. But until
    "Microsoft Windows for Linux", I probably won't
    have a great ... whatever

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke
    I didn't care for their 'MS' style of trying to force me to register and installing icons and shortcuts that I specifically chose not to have.
    I have never had to register at Microsoft to install and run the full IE browser, only for the MSN one.

    Never had a problem with shortcuts on IE products either. I have one on my desktop toolbar and that is it.
    I suppose it isn't fair to say just MS, but it had seemed to be more so with their product then anything else. I stress the 'trying' because I was able to get around that, although, to a novice user it may seem as though you have to register.

    I know I was forced to register QuickBooks, they had a so many days left window pop-up every time I launched the program. Which always POed since I had payed $150+ for the product. There was one MS product, Office 2000 Pro, that I thought I had to register also.

    Update
    After a few hours, I deceided to uninstall Netscape 6. No such luck. It doesn't show up in my add/remove, nor does it have an uninstall option.

    They're a long way from winning me back.
    Westmich
    Smart Web Solutions for Smart Clients
    http://www.mindscapecreative.com

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    NS6 loads new windows instanly on my PC and it's only dual 440 cellerons. I like the NS but I think I will be sticking to the Mozilla.org builds of it.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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  12. #12
    Bored One boredboi's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your replies...

    Actually, I was more interested in whether you should code for Netscape 6 or not, but for some reason, my post went to the Software Help Desk instead of Web page design...

    Thanks anyway.


  13. #13
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    The new release of NS is nothing short of an evil joke.

    Aside from the fact that it's slower than dead turtles in January, it has retained many (most?) of the same faults and failings in the HTML interpreter that were present in prior versions.

    The JAVA engine is likewise trash. Applets that run with alacrity on all browsers back to NS3 tend to jump, hop, burp, stall, stutter, and, yes, sometimes even cha-cha.

    Worse still, the JVM is apparently non-compliant to extant standards in some cases, rendering applets that work everywhere else unserviceable -- and no, there is no "write-around".

    Maybe this is why NS does not even include the JVM in the standard download?

    In answer to "writing for NS6" -- I doubt there will be any need to. It's nearly unuseable.

    And that's if you can even get it to install. It took six shots to do it here, and some custom fudmuggling at that... and support on this problem? E-Mail to Netscape Support promptly returned a note saying, well, maybe they'd answer the e-mail some day -- but they'd really rather you dialed their 800 number and got ready to pay them $29 to discover the secret of just how you're supposed to circumvent their installation bugs.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Originally posted by boredboi
    Thanks for all your replies...

    Actually, I was more interested in whether you should code for Netscape 6 or not, but for some reason, my post went to the Software Help Desk instead of Web page design...

    Thanks anyway.

    I don't think it's an issue of coding for NS6. NS6 supports the 'basic standards' as does IE5. So we code to the standards and the browsers will work the same.

    The question is what to do for the browsers that don't support the 'basic standards', specifically NS4.X.

    IMHO, this will be a mute point within a year.
    Westmich
    Smart Web Solutions for Smart Clients
    http://www.mindscapecreative.com

  15. #15
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    If you stay to the "standards" all the browser versions support, you'll be coding in plain text... lol.

  16. #16
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    I plan on downloading it tonight... not that it will replace IE, but it is needed for testing purposes...

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Again, let me explain my point. NS6 supports basic standards (CSS 1, DOM 1, JavaScript 1.7, XHTML). If your pages work in IE5/5.5, there shouldn't be any problem with NS6; this is the good news. The bad news is that there will still be a significant percentage of users using NS4.x, WebTV, and browsers for the disabled. IMHO, a year from now the users using NS4.x will be insignificant and WebTV and disabled browsers will offer more support for CSS 1, DOM 1, JavaScript, and XHTML/XML (BTW, there is a lot of room for creativity with these 'basic standards').

    However, by that time, there will be features of CSS 2 & 3 and other new technologies that won't be fully supported--except by Microsoft
    Westmich
    Smart Web Solutions for Smart Clients
    http://www.mindscapecreative.com

  18. #18
    Bored One boredboi's Avatar
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    Thanks.
    Apparently our compatability nightmares are not yet over...
    Now we STILL have to code for NS4

    And they call this the "End of all browser compatability problems."


  19. #19
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    Originally posted by westmich
    ...there is a lot of room for creativity with these 'basic standards'...
    That quote's a keeper, and its truth oft overlooked. While huge numbers of web developers seem abysmally pre-occupied with using every bell 'n' whistle in creation, most would be better served with creative use of standard techniques.

    In point, how many (hundreds?) of sites have you seen with content-less, slow, balky Flash front ends that did absolutely nothing whatever useful -- beyond perhaps displaying the fact that the developer had figured out how to make SWF files?



    [Edited by etLux on 11-16-2000 at 10:08 PM]

  20. #20
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    I downloaded it and have had no problems with it. I am just trying to find the skins! Anyone?

  21. #21
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  22. #22
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Thanks!

  23. #23
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Finally got Netscape 6 downloaded and it is better than it's 4x counterparts, but still can't compete with IE. Unfortunately, I found a problem on my site while viewing it in NS6.

  24. #24
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Same here M. James. I viewed my site in Netscape6 and the tables were missaligned. So I had whitespace in between to colored tables that work perfectly in IE and NS4.

  25. #25
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    I hope Netscape isn't getting more picky than it already was... because it is showing errors on pages with it's new version than the old. Luckily, I got the error fixed.


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