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  1. #26
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by URAlly
    ... burn the website on cd with original dates of authenticity, and send in a self-addressed-stamped envelope to yourself...
    Hehe, looks identical to my old advice: If you get a great idea, write it down and mail to yourself.
    And now you have stolen my advice!!!
    I will contact my lawyer immediately...

  2. #27
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofa
    Hehe, looks identical to my old advice: If you get a great idea, write it down and mail to yourself.
    And now you have stolen my advice!!! [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
    I will contact my lawyer immediately...
    LOL!!! Are you mocking me? Will it EVER be forgotten?!?

  3. #28
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    I was wondering if this happened to a layout you made that you were selling and somebody else took parts of it and used it on his and sold it

    Could you sue him?

  4. #29
    Also available in Large Si's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiigara
    he has a friend who is a pro web designer for a livin who is making a flash intro for his site.
    Just to change the subject a little, why would a "pro" web designer create a flash intro? That has amateur written all over it!
    Si
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Guru wild boar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsi
    Just to change the subject a little, why would a "pro" web designer create a flash intro? That has amateur written all over it!
    Very simple.. Because the client asks for it..

  6. #31
    Also available in Large Si's Avatar
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    So tell the client (in the most polite way possible) that Flash animations annoy virtually all potential customers. Not only do they extend the time taken to find out important information from the website, they are crap for search engine positioning and, most the time, look naff!

    If nothing is done about it, I'm going to start a revolution against Flash intros!!

    "Down with flash intros... down with flash intros!"
    Si
    Are you a Photoshop Jedi Master? Prove it!

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  7. #32
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsi
    Just to change the subject a little...
    And don't do that please, we are talking "Is it legal to copy a website's layout?" here, not "Are Flash intros legal?"

    More related to the subject: When is it legal to copy another design (any type of design) and use it when you design a web site?
    Examples: Can I use a 50 year old wallpaper - and now I mean real wallpaper - as background on a page? Is it OK to create a logo that resembles a trademark that hasn't been in use for 25 years? Etc...

  8. #33
    Also available in Large Si's Avatar
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    OK...

    Back to the original subject then , I've recently been working on a website at work which is virtually a complete rip of another website that was done by a lad in Germany. I wasn't too keen on doing this as (a) it seems really cheeky as this guy had done a lot of work to come up with a nice design and (b) you don't feel proud about creating a new design by yourself. As for the legalities, I wouldn't be surprised if a court case will appear in the future and to be entirely honest, I hope there will be. I've gone ahead with the design as it was the bosses decision and not mine (and I needed my job). It's interesting to find out that if you write the idea down and send it to yourself, it becomes copyrighted. I think I'll do that in the future of any designs. I suppose a screengrab printed out would help as well !!??
    Si
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  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsi
    It's interesting to find out that if you write the idea down and send it to yourself, it becomes copyrighted.
    The post you just made is copyrighted untill you die and then for another 50 to 70 after that too.

    In the US, I can get off quoting you on "fair use" grounds. Where I am, there is no such thing as "fair use", I just infringed on your copyright.

    The question then is: Was it a criminal offence?

    Not here, I didn't try to sell or hire it.

    Could you sue me in a court?

    Naa, because the value of your post is about $0, you'd get thrown out.

    That is basically how it works

    Douglas
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  10. #35
    because you gotta have beer! firegryphon3207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougBTX
    The post you just made is copyrighted untill you die and then for another 50 to 70 after that too.

    In the US, I can get off quoting you on "fair use" grounds. Where I am, there is no such thing as "fair use", I just infringed on your copyright.

    The question then is: Was it a criminal offence?

    Not here, I didn't try to sell or hire it.

    Could you sue me in a court?

    Naa, because the value of your post is about $0, you'd get thrown out.

    That is basically how it works

    Douglas
    Yes but if you presented that quote as your own, you are not neccesarily (sp?) infringing on his copyrights, but aren't you engaging in plagerism? Isn't that what plagerism is? Quoting copyrighted works and presenting it as your own? And is that a criminal offense only if you sell it? Just an question or two. or three.
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  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    I'm no expert, but here is the law in the UK:

    http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988..._7.htm#mdiv107

    Douglas
    Hello World

  12. #37
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegryphon3207
    Yes but if you presented that quote as your own, you are not neccesarily (sp?) infringing on his copyrights, but aren't you engaging in plagerism? Isn't that what plagerism is? Quoting copyrighted works and presenting it as your own? And is that a criminal offense only if you sell it? Just an question or two. or three.
    Yes, yes, yes, no, respectively .

  13. #38
    because you gotta have beer! firegryphon3207's Avatar
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    no, it's not a criminal offense at all? or it is a criminal offense even if you are giving it away?
    Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegryphon3207
    no, it's not a criminal offense at all? or it is a criminal offense even if you are giving it away?
    Your violating copyright laws but yu cant go to jain for that. You could risk a civil suite though.
    01010001001010101000100101010100010010101001010001001010101000

  15. #40
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegryphon3207
    no, it's not a criminal offense at all? or it is a criminal offense even if you are giving it away?
    I think Vinnie means the answer is No to the question "And is that a criminal offense only if you sell it?"
    (Correct?)
    I.e. you don't have to sell it to be criminal, it's the copyright infringement, plagiarism or whatever that is illegal. And giving someone else's work away for free is... can't find the correct word...

  16. #41
    Sidewalking anode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by URAlly
    burn the website on cd with original dates of authenticity, and send in a self-addressed-stamped envelope to yourself (registered return receipt) and keep in a safe place, unopened
    This is an urban legend. Ask a lawyer.
    TuitionFree a free library for the self-taught
    Anode Says... Blogging For Your Pleasure

  17. #42
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Is the "Notarius Publicus" office an urban legend too?

  18. #43
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofa
    I think Vinnie means the answer is No to the question "And is that a criminal offense only if you sell it?"
    (Correct?)
    I.e. you don't have to sell it to be criminal, it's the copyright infringement, plagiarism or whatever that is illegal. And giving someone else's work away for free is... can't find the correct word...
    Jofa is correct as always

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Crazybanana's Avatar
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    Who's to doom when the judge himself is dragged before the bar


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  20. #45
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    When I first started out on the Web (back in the day, 1997), I found a website whose layout and design I admired. Having just purchased FrontPage (I have since upgraded to Dreamweaver, thank God), I copied the site's main page code, opened it in FP, and studied how everything was arranged - tables, borders, content, fonts, etc.

    I was teaching myself to write HTML at the time and studying this site's code and layout helped me to better understand how it was all done.

    When I created my frist site I followed along with how they had arranged tables, cells, etc. The only problem here was that, even though all the graphics were made by me, my site ended up with a "look" like theirs - simply because I had not changed any arrangement of the tables, etc.

    The site whose code I had admired started a flaming thread about me and my site in thier forums, saying I had "ripped" their design. I went into the forums, apologized, and then explained what I had done. I also started working on a totally new "layout" - one that was just my own.

    This taught me two very important things:

    1.) Be original .... even right down to the arrangement and placing of code. Because even HTML and CSS can be used in an artful manner, if one tries hard enough.

    2.) Be honest .... by visiting their forum and explaining what happened (to the people of the forum as well as the site's webmaster) I was accepted and have been part of their community for some time now.

    Lastly, as a designer, I want to stress how important it is to come up with your own work. I know it can be tedious at times, but in the end the satisfaction of knowing you've created your own, unique design makes it all worth it.

  21. #46
    because you gotta have beer! firegryphon3207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    Jofa is correct as always
    Thanks to you both for clearing it up for me. Will be careful to make sure I get permission and quote sources in the future. Not that I'm not careful, it was never clear for me and I just figured better safe than sorry.
    Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much.
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  22. #47
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    I would contact a lawyer and have him write a cease and desist letter and send it to him and his isp. I am sure that it won't be free to do but will usually get action.
    http://www.eransworld.com -bored look at my boring website


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