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  1. #26
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    Half - arsed ? But not fit for the market place ? Come on now, that is a bit crude to make that remark no ? Of course it's fit for the marketplace, otherwise you'd never have those number of hosts supporting it, with or without PHP coming into the equation... Sure PHP has helped it along, but it'd proberly get along just as well without PHP anyway... eventually

  2. #27
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    Anyway, take this oppurtunity and use PostgreSQL instead. You'll love Stored Procedures and SubSelects!
    Any favorite PostgtreSQL resources?
    There are quite a few PHP/MySQL books (with good reviews) on the market,
    only 1 PHP/PostgreSQL book (mixed reviews) as I am aware of, and a handful or two PostgreSQL books in total, (at amazon.co.uk).
    Good web hosting info All you need to know about web hosting
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  3. #28
    SitePoint Zealot prefab's Avatar
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    I can recommend SAMS PHP and PostgeSQL Advanced Web Programming

    - prefab

  4. #29
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Livingston
    Half - arsed ? But not fit for the market place ? Come on now, that is a bit crude to make that remark no ? Of course it's fit for the marketplace, otherwise you'd never have those number of hosts supporting it, with or without PHP coming into the equation... Sure PHP has helped it along, but it'd proberly get along just as well without PHP anyway... eventually
    Huh? I never said it wasn't fit for the marketplace. I just said it has had a very unfair advantage by being the de-facto database for PHP. It's probably the most used database on the web, seen from a pure quantitative standpoint, and the only thing it really holds over other databases is speed. It simply has a better adoption than it really deserves, and it good that PHP is no longer bundling it, so that we can finally see some proper competition.
    Mattias Johansson
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    If I am going to end up paying almost as much as for MySQL as I would have paid for MS SQL Server. Then, why not go for ASP.NET/SQL Server?

  6. #31
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umair.ms
    If I am going to end up paying almost as much as for MySQL as I would have paid for MS SQL Server. Then, why not go for ASP.NET/SQL Server?
    Beats me...

    However, I doubt you would be paying that much. 440? MSSQL costs 10 times that.
    Mattias Johansson
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  7. #32
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    I thought my context was much clearer. I actually meant web hosting costs. Why would I ever want SQL Server on my desktop (MSDE works fine for development)? But on the server-side, if I have to pay only a slightly more than MySQL, I would definitely go for ASP.NET/SQL Server.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    Personally I think this thread started out as FUD and is going downhill from there.

    If I am going to end up paying almost as much as for MySQL as I would have paid for MS SQL Server. Then, why not go for ASP.NET/SQL Server?
    Why even both speculating what's going to happen right now? The impact of MySQL moving to GPLed client licenses does not make any difference to existing PHP/MySQL installations today and only effects MySQL 4.x clients which impacts future PHP releases only.

    What's more if you read around you'll see that MySQL are planning to allow projects under an Open Source license (e.g. PHP) to waive the GPL issue. In other words this whole subject will be a dead parrot as far as PHP is concerned within 30 days (my guess). The only issue is the "PR" was badly handled by the PHP crew - they assumed users could grasp the technical issues and react cooly. Not all can...

    Many of the PHP crew know members of the MySQL crew personally.

    Jeremy Zawodny for example works at Yahoo along with Rasmus Lehrdorf and now Andrei Zmievski and Jeremy is in many ways MySQL's alpha user, having given many a presentation on MySQL.

    From the 7th of July to the 11th all these people will be together, face to face, at O'Reilly's OSCon 2003, after which we can all forget this ever happened.

  9. #34
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing that up, Harry.
    Mattias Johansson
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  10. #35
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    Well ... I still have a confusion. If a web host provides MySQL to its users, does it need to PURCHASE a license. And, even if it doesn't happen now. Would it be the case from MySQL 4.x onwards? And if it happens, don't you think that MySQL hosting costs will rise?

    And with higher MySQL hosting costs, I would go for my personal preference ASP.NET. I am not trying to imply that ASP.NET is better than PHP or Microsoft SQL Server is better than MySQL (although it is the case ).

  11. #36
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umair.ms
    Well ... I still have a confusion. If a web host provides MySQL to its users, does it need to PURCHASE a license. And, even if it doesn't happen now. Would it be the case from MySQL 4.x onwards? And if it happens, don't you think that MySQL hosting costs will rise?
    The license is very straightforward, it lists the exact situations when you would need a license:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.mysql.com/downloads/index.html
    If you distribute MySQL Software with your non open source software,
    If you want warranty from MySQL AB for the MySQL software,
    If you want to support MySQL development
    So, you need a license if you are modifying the server, want warranty from MySQL AB or you are distributing the MySQL server with a closed source program

    Sean
    Harry Potter

    -- You lived inside my world so softly
    -- Protected only by the kindness of your nature

  12. #37
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    Umair.ms , why pay anything to anyone ? , as has been mentioned many a time PostgreSQL is a fully featured RDBMS if not x-platform , firebird is basically an open-source fully featured RDBMS interbase and nicely x-platform , they are both free and both easily accessible from PHP and one assumes .NET

  13. #38
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanf
    The license is very straightforward, it lists the exact situations when you would need a license:

    So, you need a license if you are modifying the server, want warranty from MySQL AB or you are distributing the MySQL server with a closed source program

    Sean
    Not sure MySQL AB actually sees it that way. They have previously contacted some of vBulletin's customers and told them they need to purchase a license to use MySQL with vBulletin.

    This is irregardless of the fact that we do not redistribute MySQL, install MySQL, perform MySQL optimizations, alter the MySQL server or anything else except access MySQL databases though the PHP client.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  14. #39
    SitePoint Member chendra's Avatar
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    cmiiw, the probable future of mysql, look at OpenOffice.org and Mozilla, i think that's how comercial mysql would go

    john

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    I agree with Mattias - Take this opportunity to use PostgreSQL, in some situations yes it may be slightly slower for data reads - but if you are getting that many data reads where it becomes apparent then you should be aching those reads anyway. Also there are situations where PostgreSQL beats mySQL hands down on data reads, like I have a system which allows unlimited category depth and each item is assigned a category id - now to use mySQL to get the full category trail I have to do n-1 queries (Where n is the depth of the category the item is in) from my PHP to work out the full category trail - With PostgreSQL I do one call to a stored procedure that works it all our for me and far faster than PHP + mySQL doing the donkey work for me.

    mySQL is fine for simple sites, but it's still not a proper RDBMS in my books, for heavens sake it only actually started supporting relations recently (v4) so all the claims of being an RDBMS were not true until v4.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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  16. #41
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    I guess, its better to go with PostgreSQL.

    I always wondered why an incomplete "RDBMS" like MySQL is so popular. But well, same goes for PHP too .

    Most probably because PHP and MySQL are both easy to grasp and apply. Well, fast too

  17. #42
    Database Jedi MattR's Avatar
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    It's a combination of lack of fundamental knowledge and the 'path of least resistance'.

    People don't know the advantages of declarative constraints, etc. and so they don't know they need them.

    MySQL is pretty 'hands off' (which is not a bad thing) and relatively easy to install. The fact the libs come pre-bundled has something to do with this as well.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    But here comes the next problem. What about web hosting support for PostgreSQL? How easy is it to find a web host that has PostgreSQL installed (with PHP-PostgreSQL support, ofcourse).

  19. #44
    Resident OCD goofball! bronze trophy Serenarules's Avatar
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    Actually, I'd use Oracle if it weren't so friggin huge...

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    Not as difficult as you might think to find a host with PostgreSQL

    We're currently evaluation Sybase as well for potential deployment for customer use as well.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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  21. #46
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    This sure will be a bummer for all of us vbulletin users. I wonder what will end up happening.
    Jim Lewis
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  22. #47
    Resident OCD goofball! bronze trophy Serenarules's Avatar
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    Well I typically write for companies with thier own servers, and I own my own as well, so technology choices are opened up a bit and I'm not limited to Pg, although Pg seems like a really good for smaller installations. I know Oracle and am *trying* to learn Pg, though I am having difficulties obtaining good documentation.

  23. #48
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    Karl. I get the point

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assigned
    As you may have heard, the developers of Mysql and Php have officially divorced and as it now stands, the new release of Php version 5 does not include Mysql libraries.
    What this simply means is that, pretty soon and I am predicting that in less than one year, the era of free Mysql will be over. In plain English, as soon as they get a stable release of version 4. for MySQL (production grade), licensing will be required.
    Rumor has it that this sole issue was the primary reason for the parting of ways. But this should have been expected. For the past few months, the developers of MySql have been working and co-developing a coporate version of their database with SAP with SAP pumping in millions into Mysql. This follows the trend these days. Bash Microsoft and call them all kinds of names, then do the same thing they are doing .... charge lots of money for your products! If you have looked around, you will notice, that virtually all open-source tools that are worth anything now cost 3 arms and four legs! BSD is sueing just about everyone for the Linux codes, claiming it was based on their original codes. To get any decent Linux build these days, you actually have to pay good money for it. Even some developer sites now charge "subscription donation" for what they call "premium articles".
    I have no problems paying or buying what I need, but I do believe, that the so called open source community are just hypocritical by deriding Microsoft while doing same thing.
    For developers that have popularized Mysql and depend on it, get ready to learn something new, perhaps, PostGres?? if you can pronounce the name! We have been suckered again.
    assigned
    I don't mind kicking back a little to ensure the products I use continue to evolve. And what do you mean by "lots of money". Do you have figures?


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