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  1. #1
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    Mysql divorces PHP! Is Licencing next for MySql?

    As you may have heard, the developers of Mysql and Php have officially divorced and as it now stands, the new release of Php version 5 does not include Mysql libraries.
    What this simply means is that, pretty soon and I am predicting that in less than one year, the era of free Mysql will be over. In plain English, as soon as they get a stable release of version 4. for MySQL (production grade), licensing will be required.
    Rumor has it that this sole issue was the primary reason for the parting of ways. But this should have been expected. For the past few months, the developers of MySql have been working and co-developing a coporate version of their database with SAP with SAP pumping in millions into Mysql. This follows the trend these days. Bash Microsoft and call them all kinds of names, then do the same thing they are doing .... charge lots of money for your products! If you have looked around, you will notice, that virtually all open-source tools that are worth anything now cost 3 arms and four legs! BSD is sueing just about everyone for the Linux codes, claiming it was based on their original codes. To get any decent Linux build these days, you actually have to pay good money for it. Even some developer sites now charge "subscription donation" for what they call "premium articles".
    I have no problems paying or buying what I need, but I do believe, that the so called open source community are just hypocritical by deriding Microsoft while doing same thing.
    For developers that have popularized Mysql and depend on it, get ready to learn something new, perhaps, PostGres?? if you can pronounce the name! We have been suckered again.
    assigned

  2. #2
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    Yer, I'm not too happy either about this to put it politely and I am seriously thinking of moving over to PostgreSQL - once I can find out how to install the damn thing on Windows, failing that I might have to put Linux of some description on my alternate HD ? Umm... Not happy at all folks

  3. #3
    Non-Member Icheb's Avatar
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    If you put a lot of time and effort into something that becomes successful, wouldn't you want to make money with that? Of course we don't like it, but it's understandable.

    And yes, I will be migrating to PostgreSQL if / when MySQL has to be paid for.

  4. #4
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    Umm... Can see the sense in that myself; like we all have to make a living of some kind I suppose... grudgeingly...

  5. #5
    midnight coder
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    MySQL 4 is already in production grade, and it's still free.

    PHP just happened to have included the MySQL libraries in previous versions of PHP, but now if you wanna use MySQL, you set it up like all the other databases - big deal.
    Work smarter, not harder. -Scrooge McDuck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo
    MySQL 4 is already in production grade, and it's still free.

    PHP just happened to have included the MySQL libraries in previous versions of PHP, but now if you wanna use MySQL, you set it up like all the other databases - big deal.
    I agree, but the point here is that, we should come out and admit that the so called open-source revolution has failed. Developers are used to popularize new apps and then they pull the rug and bam, you now need a hefty license.
    Have you looked at the roll out cost of SAP? The news is that, 'cos it costs millions to roll out and keep up, they are looking for a mid range app that will capture the mid market and Mysql fits that description.
    A few years ago, Borland did same thing with INTERBASE. As soon as it become popular, they pulled the open-source version and the license now costs hundreds. (you can still get a version called FIREBIRD) as open-source not from Borland. I don't think Mysql would have been as popular as it is today if not for inclusion in PHP. Version 4 stable?? Depends on how you define stability. Stable? yes. Industrial stregth production use, I don't think so.
    Some friends that work for big companies told me they have been asked not to run any version of Linux or Mysql till the legal battle with BSD is settled.
    I am not complaining, but I am not happy about it and I am going back to using Microsoft tools. Atleast, they charge for their products and make no apologis.
    assigned

  7. #7
    "Of" != "Have" bronze trophy Jeff Lange's Avatar
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    Using PostgreSQL will be no easier than MySQL, as they will both have to be configured the same way from now on; I fail to see the big deal.
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  8. #8
    "Of" != "Have" bronze trophy Jeff Lange's Avatar
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    MySQL is still open source, and they had commercial licenses before too.
    Who walks the stairs without a care
    It shoots so high in the sky.
    Bounce up and down just like a clown.
    Everyone knows its Slinky.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    but the point here is that, we should come out and admit that the so called open-source revolution has failed
    Actually the fact that MySQL AB is on it's way to become a very successfuly enterprise shows that Open Source is a very effective way to develop commercial software. There are many difference shades of Open Source from the GNU "you may take my land but doing so makes your land open source as well" to PHP where the main driving force is Zend who sell commercial add ons to PHP. In the end we all have to eat...

    But panic not (or stir up panic in others ).

    I'm 99.99% sure this will be sorted out. It's already looking like MySQL will allow other Open Source projects to do as they choose while forcing GPL on closed source software. Try this for starters:
    http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000812.html

  10. #10
    killall -9 lusers
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    Uhm hello there. I think some of you need to learn a little bit about open source licenses before you go ranting about what MySQL has done. First of all, MySQL is now being published under a GPL license. This is open source. PHP is published under a diffferent license (the "PHP License") which is based on the Apache license and is much looser in terms of what people can do with the code. The reason MySQL is no longer bundled with PHP is because that would mean that PHP would have to change their license too. It doesn't mean that MySQL won't work with PHP. It doesn't mean that MySQL won;t be available for free.

    In fact, because MySQL is under a GPL license, you can be confident that it will probably _ALWAYS_ be free. Even if the MySQL AB company stopped giving their code away for free, the open source community would have every legal right to continue developing a GPL'd version of MySQL base don the last GPL'd release of MySQL.

    The reason (educated guess here) that MySQL AB switched to the GPL license is most likely just so that some other company can not use the MySQL code in their own non-GPL'd database product and then try to take market share form MySQL AB. It's just plain smart business.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    Soon i'll start working on a website. Although, I am more into ASP.NET than in PHP, but some limitations and feature requirements mean that I'll have to go for Linux. So, what will you guys recommend? Despite this present situation, should I still go for Linux? Which one should I choose, MySQL or PostgreSQL? Please no 99.99% assurity (as it wouldn't be able to compensate for my development efforts) --- but I need a realistic opinion (or analysis).
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  12. #12
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    BSD has started sueing people?? Which BSD and what people?? I haven't heard anything about that... I heard about SCO vs. IBM but that was a matter of GPLed code and proprietary code that IBM had included it in. BSD is code that is free for anyone to use and redistribute without including the source.

    Now about the MySQL issue. I have to agree with KillAllDash9, we are all jumping the gun a little with this one. The licensing schemes didn't fit each other so they are making a change that will keep both technologies "free" you just don't have the added bonus of having one built into the other by default.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    Which one should I choose, MySQL or PostgreSQL?
    First thing to consider is most LAMP hosts have "bought in" to MySQL already and have large customer bases using MySQL so whatever happens, MySQL and PHP are not breaking up. Check with whatever host you choose is committed to MySQL if you're nervous but I really don't think this is an issue.

    PostgreSQL is in many ways a better database than MySQL but is not really "cross platform" yet - i.e. it's hard work getting it running under Windows.

    Either way, make an informed decision based on the technical issues not what you here may or may not be happening between PHP and MySQL. Also think with database abstraction in mind if you feel you may need to switch later.

  14. #14
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    I think it's kinda funny that when mySQL finally starts using the GPL licence, and becomes Open Source per-se, people start complaining about it, and names them capitalists.

    Anyway, take this oppurtunity and use PostgreSQL instead. You'll love Stored Procedures and SubSelects!
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  15. #15
    midnight coder
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    Haven't heard of BSD suing anyone, is it NetBSD, OpenBSD...?

    I don't think there're any BSD suing anyone, maybe the person got confuse with something else?
    Work smarter, not harder. -Scrooge McDuck

  16. #16
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
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    PostgreSQL isn't the Holy Grail Mattias, perhaps when it's cross-platform it will become a better option

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  17. #17
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanf
    PostgreSQL isn't the Holy Grail Mattias, perhaps when it's cross-platform it will become a better option

    Sean
    Nah, it's still a better option, as long as you run PHP on Unix.
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  18. #18
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    Sub Selects ? Umm... You have those in mySQL as well... PostgreSQL better than mySQL ? Only slightly though IMO; mySQL is far more popular, far more in demand and far easier to work with

  19. #19
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Livingston
    Sub Selects ?
    Umm... You have those in mySQL as well... [/quote]

    Nope. Sub Queries are in alpha right now, but no sane person would be using that for a production web site.

    PostgreSQL better than mySQL ? Only slightly though IMO; mySQL is far more popular, far more in demand and far easier to work with
    That is only if you think working without sub selects, stored procedures, views and triggers in easier. I'll give you that mySQL has excellent administration tools, though, and is easy to get started with. However, way to many has picked it by default without even checking into the options since it was "bundled" with PHP, so to speak.

    I know, because I was one of them. I used mySQL for quite some time before I even understood that it had competitors! When I was first introduced to MSSQL, with sprocs, I was totally in awe of how convinient they were and how much more elegant I could make my apps. Sub queries are another thing that saves you truckloads of time.

    As for speed issues... That is only a discussion you need to have if you are getting huge amounts of pageviews per second. And in such a discussion, you need to take into account that postgres scales better, even though it's slower, and take into account that mySQL gets much of it's speed from not doing transaction logging.
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  20. #20
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    PostgreSQL has speed issues... It may have transactions and stored procedures but it fails when it comes to speed.

    I am not complaining about the new licensing, I think it is a good business move and a smart one.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    LOL ... M. Johansson, I totally agree with you

    PHP guys are always advocating MySQL as one of the fastest database server and often comparing/competing with Oracle (who cares of MS SQL Server and IBM DB2 anyway? ).

    MySQL 3.2.23, still bundled with RedHat Linux 9.0 lacks anything such as sub selects, stored procedures (and some equivalent of PL/SQL, TSQL or PL/pgSQL), triggers, views, transaction logging, and several other features. I would personally place MySQL only above Microsoft Access.

  22. #22
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    Funny... I'm bloody sure that there was Sub Selects in mySQL ? Sure I read about them in the manual; maybe though this was in relation to something much like Sub Selects, either that or we have differing views on a Sub Select ? Doubtful though since I actually know what a Sub Select is...

  23. #23
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Livingston
    Funny... I'm bloody sure that there was Sub Selects in mySQL ? Sure I read about them in the manual; maybe though this was in relation to something much like Sub Selects, either that or we have differing views on a Sub Select ? Doubtful though since I actually know what a Sub Select is...
    http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/ANSI_diff_Sub-selects.html
    I'm referring to the first line. You CAN do (INSERT ... SELECT ...) and (REPLACE ... SELECT ...) but not any others, like (SELECT ... SELECT ...) which happens to be the one I've always seem to be using the most. Half-arsed support is not support.

    Don't get me wrong, mySQL is an excellent little database, it's just that it does not in any way good enough to warrant its position on the market. It's all thanks to PHP, much like IE wouldn't be so popular if it weren't for Windows. (even though it is pretty good)
    Mattias Johansson
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  24. #24
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
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    IE is damn good. Most of the sites are "safely" targeted towards IE and it can be quite frustrating to browse web sites that use CSS and are tweaked for IE.

    About subselects, MySQL 4.1 supports proper subselects. But remembe 4.1 is in alpha.

    Subqueries are supported in MySQL version 4.1. See section 1.6.1 Features Available From MySQL 4.1.
    Upto version 4.0, only nested queries of the form INSERT ... SELECT ... and REPLACE ... SELECT ... are supported.

    More information at http://www.mysql.com/documentation/m...ff_Sub-selects

  25. #25
    "Of" != "Have" bronze trophy Jeff Lange's Avatar
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    hmm... I was sure MySQL 4.0 was *supposed* to bring subqueries... Oh well, I guess they moved that to 4.1.
    Who walks the stairs without a care
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