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Thread: Rnib

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    Rnib

    Just for info, the RNIB - www.rnib.org.uk - are relaunching their main site next week, it'll be interesting to see what changes they've made.
    Last edited by Daz; Jun 20, 2003 at 06:18.

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    Posts rarely lloydi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz
    Just for info, the RNIB - www.rnib.org.uk - are relaunching their main site next week, it'll be interesting to see what changes they've made.
    Do you know what the go-live date is? Monday, I assume ... but if you have a specific date that'd be appreciated
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    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    even better, if you have a link to an official announcement, i can beat ian to it and post it to accessify before him
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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    I got the info from the E-Access Bulletin (which I didn't know existed and have now signed up for) that a colleague forwarded onto me.

    This is all it says -
    +03: RNIB RELAUNCHES WEB SITE.
    The RNIB is to relaunch its main web site (http://www.rnib.org.uk)
    next week, to make it more user-friendly for visitors with impaired
    vision.
    According to website manager Margaret O'Donnell the previous site,
    which went live in 1995, had grown too large and as a result contained
    out-of-date information and had layout inconsistencies between
    sections. "Before, we had a big maintenance problem with 20,000
    HTML files on the site and a team of only three people." To combat
    this, a new accessible content management system has been installed,
    which has also been applied to the RNIB's intranet.
    The new site, which has been two years in the making, will also be
    easier to navigate with assistive technologies. "Better-structured
    documents will make it easier to read or scan with screen readers,"
    O'Donnell said. Staff have also been trained in how to write for text-
    to-speech software, and other web accessibility issues including plain
    style and the avoidance of jargon.
    The site will include information on accessing technology, with fact-
    sheets and resources.

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    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    Daz, again cheers for the info which i have now flagged up at http://www.accessify.com/archives/20....asp#200441188
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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    Thanks for the link to Acquiweb. Can anyone post news at Accessify? I love Ian's site and I recently registered at it but I can't see the link to comment on articles etc? Irony eh?

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    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz
    Can anyone post news at Accessify?
    not directly...i've been invited by Ian to participate (another quirk of the job is: i get to have my own cheesy bio online http://www.accessify.com/biographies/patrick-lauke.asp )
    you can, however, email anything you think is newsworthy, and/or articles/tutorials. you never know, you may be asked to post to it as well...

    I love Ian's site and I recently registered at it but I can't see the link to comment on articles etc? Irony eh?
    is it plugged in ? aeh, i mean: are you logged in ? also, you can't comment on news items, only articles and tutorials i think...

    hmmm...there may be something wrong with the login at the moment...it keeps "forgetting" i'm actually logged in correctly. i'll flag it with ian
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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    Smell the cheese Yes I'm logged in, every time I visit it says "You are signed in as Daz" and I see the link now to add a comment but only on tutorials.

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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    I was wondering why Redux you chose not to place: Special Educational Needs and Disabilities Act (SENDA) into bracketed parenthesis.

    Unfortunately our proxy servers block "deviantArt" because it has blacklisted words in the URL string, which is a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhtmlcoder
    I was wondering why Redux you chose not to place: Special Educational Needs and Disabilities Act (SENDA) into bracketed parenthesis.
    i'm not sure i follow you...why should i put bracketed parenthesis around it ? it's marked up as an acronym, with the expanded title for it, but SENDA is the common way of referreing to act...or am i missing the point here ?

    Unfortunately our proxy servers block "deviantArt" because it has blacklisted words in the URL string, which is a shame.
    in that case go to www.daprints.com/affiliates/redux and marvel at the smaller selections of works you can buy
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by redux
    in that case go to www.daprints.com/affiliates/redux and marvel at the smaller selections of works you can buy
    Beautiful work!
    signature

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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Redux, you are not missing the point although I'll tell you a little story about one of my friends called: Mark that used to be a Field Server Engineer for International Business Machines (IBM) before he got a rather nasty electrical shock seven years ago and received nerve damage to his hands, and has since had several operations.

    Today he was telling me:

    …if I'm having problems mousing about in coordinated fashion. I usually suffer 24-48 hours when I overdo it…
    Look at it another-way the "tool tip" appears when you hover the mouse over the abbreviation - assuming the browser is following the W3C Technical Recommendations, for visual browsers and you have used the 'title' attribute, etc.

    Lets assume you don't have any special accessibility functions enabled for your user-agent and you are not using a pointing device; then abbreviation alone may become an inaccessible island.

    Thus I generally follow the scientific method of first spelling out an abbreviation then enclosing it within brackets, for example: World Wide Web Consortium (W3C).

    However, there is a snag, which you'll have realized when you also apply the 'title' attribute to the same abbreviation... Albeit the largest market-share browser does not show the 'tool tip' for the <abbr> and under some circumstances falls to render the 'tool tip' for the 'title' attribute when applied to the <acronym>.

    I shall soon be contacting another acquaintance that used to do welding upon nuclear submarines; he also received damage to the hands in a work related incident.
    Last edited by xhtmlcoder; Jun 23, 2003 at 09:09.

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    a possible solution: get a css2 aware browser (whose css2 support is better than IE's, in any case) and apply this style
    Code:
    abbr:before {
    	content:  attr(title) " (";
    }
    
    abbr:after {
    	content: "} ";
    }
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Unless the liveware also chose to disable Cascading Style Sheets via the user-agent; in either case I have to credit you on staying sharp during my little illustration. I was aware of that pseudo :before and :after "styling trick" ')' since a similar method is occasionally applied to Access Keys .

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhtmlcoder
    Unless the liveware also chose to disable Cascading Style Sheets via the user-agent
    yes, there's always problems like that. i for one, though, try to code things to standards and assume that users that need some degree of accessibility enhancements will use a browser that lets them configure things the way they want...

    but yes, i always stay sharp

    food for thought indeed, and in some cases harsh decisions to be made. let me just say that on larger commercial projects, i may just spell acronyms out as you say...but i'm an idealist at heart

    Off Topic:

    incidentally, this reminds me of a recent discussion on the W3C-WAI-IG mailing list (and no, i'm not going to write this out OR put it in abbr/acronym tags :P ) about longdesc, and whether developers should use it at all, or rely just on the [D] link "interim solution", etc...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    (Off topic)
    When I get some more photographs donated - hopefully before hell freezes over - I shall chose longdesc over [D]. Thought it seems wasteful to use a whole separate page for one singular description. Which makes me glad that I am not a web designer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhtmlcoder
    (Off topic)
    Thought it seems wasteful to use a whole separate page for one singular description.
    true...although you could do a page with long descriptions of, say 10 images that are related, place named anchors (or divs, whatever) in there, and have the longdesc go to the specific image in question.

    of course, if everything is held in a database (image - or at least the url to the image -, alt, longdesc, etc) it's easy to do with minimum hassle...

    ah yes, the joys of correct markup, and the pain of browsers not supporting it...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    (off topic)
    You're thinking on more or less on same wavelengths as myself, since your first paragraph is 99% similar to what I came up with early this year.

    It's getting frosty waiting for my photographs though.

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    Back on topic ... the RNIB site is now live and unfortunately failed to impress me much.

    I've written an 'initial thoughts' piece on Accessify:
    http://www.accessify.com/archives/20...46014644065669
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    Ian, your thoughts were spot on, they really need their wrists slapped for this effort. Does it even pass priority 1 conformance?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz
    Does it even pass priority 1 conformance?!
    I ran a test and it passed that, but truthfully I see no reason why they couldn't get a P2 and P3 pass also.
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    Yes with a bit of thought and effort which seems to be lacking in the redesign. Personally I'm shocked they even put this out.

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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Well, specific pages may pass priory one but on the whole the lack of a DTD in several places and the fact that it uses 'leftmargin' and fails to use alt="" for images technically throws WAI Priory One, right out of the window for the home page.

    I myself would be hard pressed to find a WAI A page on that site. I am still shaking my head in disbelief of how they could have made such a pig's ear of the mark-up.
    Last edited by xhtmlcoder; Jun 25, 2003 at 09:49.

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    Agreed 100%. How many of us are tempted to email them and pass on our views?

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    Posts rarely lloydi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz
    Agreed 100%. How many of us are tempted to email them and pass on our views?
    I already e-mailed Julie Howell - my prime contact within RNIB - to let her know what I'd written (I bump into her quite a lot and didn't want her to hear via grapevine and think I'd knifed her in the back).

    Here's her response:

    Hi Ian

    Thanks for this. I've forward the message on to our web team (odd as it may sound, but RNIB is vast and I don't actually have anything to do with our own web site directly). It's obviously a concern if what we're SAYING is in some way different to what we're DOING, but I shall have a chat with our web team before I say any more and will wait til I'm better informed on the rationale behind the redesign.

    ...

    I don't take anything work-related personally, if I can help it. Issues are issues and personality and ego are best left at the door. So all is cool and I v. much respect your position.

    I'll see what's what with our web team and get back to you.
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