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  1. #1
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    How about frontpage?

    I am review my site and need a software to edit some texts in my site. I heard about Frontpage but I don't know much about this. I tried to find a source to download it but I can't. Anyone can help me?

  2. #2
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    I tried using Microsoft FrontPage years ago when I was just getting started learning HTML and CSS and it was pretty bad. The code it produced was bad and the program itself was a little buggy. FrontPage has been discontinued. It was replaced by Microsoft Expression Web which is now available for download for free. I downloaded Expression Web (and Microsoft's free image editor Expression Design) months ago with the intent to evaluate it but never got around to doing it.

    So if you want to evaluate Microsoft's web page editor, go to the Expression Web page and download it. If you don't mind coding manually (as many of us do), you can look at the free Notepad++ text editor.

  3. #3
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    My trouble is that: when I edit my text in Microsoft Word, it is ok. But when I upload this complete test into my site, it is changed. I don't know how to fix it. Someone say me to use Frontpage. Do you have any solution for me?

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    hello you can try adobe Dreamweaver 8. in this you can code your website as well as design it.

  5. #5
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    1) The last release of FrontPage came out in 2003, and the product was finally discontinued in 2006. That's an ancient artifact as far as the web is concerned. So no, it's not ideal for web development today.

    2) Editing webpages is word is nasty. You run into all sorts of formatting issues and garbage code. Again, not the ideal tool for web development

    3) Dreamweaver isn't bad, as far as WYSIWYG tools go. However, it's quite expensive. Any WYSIWYG editor adds unnecessary code, which is why some pages produced by them can look different in different browsers. As for Dreamweaver 8 specifically, again, an ancient artifact of the web since it was released in 2005.

    Most web developers typically use a text editor or IDE (notepad++ or Eclipse with a plugin specific to the language being used), and a browser with the firebug add-on.

    For building websites in general, you can also use a CMS, such as wordpress, drupal,or expressionengine. Those are platforms that can help you build a website without you actually needing to touch any code if you don't want to.
    Last edited by Force Flow; Jul 4, 2013 at 20:21. Reason: typo
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  6. #6
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    Try Dreamweaver, it's not free but it's worth to buy license, anyway you can try the trial then if you are satisfied upgrade it to premium... good luck!

  7. #7
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Microsoft abandoned Frontpage because it was going to be too difficult to fix it to work with more modern browsers than IE6.
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  8. #8
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    Go with Dreamweaver. It won't be that hard.
    I remember my first web page back in 2001. I made it on Frontpage Kinda, nostalgic.

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    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcttech View Post
    Among FrontPage's most powerful features is its ability to show you multiple ways to look at your Web site during the the design process.Front Page extensions are a type of language used involved in building a website.
    FrontPage has been discontinued and is obsolete, so it's a moot point as to what "features" it had. In any case, the preview could only show you what the site would look like using a variant of IE's Trident rendering engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alek_MochaHost View Post
    Go with Dreamweaver. It won't be that hard.
    Two problems with that--it's prohibitively expensive (Dreamweaver CS6 currently retails for $400) and spits out junk code.
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    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Two problems with that--it's prohibitively expensive (Dreamweaver CS6 currently retails for $400) and spits out junk code.
    It doesn't spit out junk code if you use it properly - which means you will spend almost all of your time working directly with the HTML and seldom use the WYSIWYAG pane.
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  11. #11
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    It doesn't spit out junk code if you use it properly - which means you will spend almost all of your time working directly with the HTML and seldom use the WYSIWYAG pane.
    Then that effectively defeats the purpose of a WYSIWYG editor, so you might as well go with a freebie code editor like notepad++ or Aptana.
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    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Then that effectively defeats the purpose of a WYSIWYG editor, so you might as well go with a freebie code editor like notepad++ or Aptana.
    There must be some benefit that Dreamweaver provides when the code editor is mostly used - otherwise why do so many professional web designers create their web pages in the Dreamweaver code editor instead of using a free code editor?
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  13. #13
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    You probably know that FrontPage is a Web site design tool. But it has another major role that's important to remember: FrontPage is also a Web site management tool.

    How do you use FrontPage to help you manage your site? Here are examples of what you can do:

    Add, rename, delete, or move around files (without doing it in Microsoft Windows Explorer)
    Fix problems by using special reports, like the broken hyperlinks report
    Publish a Web site

    The important thing to remember is that these management features are not available when opening and working on single HTML files. They are available only when you open and work on a FrontPage Web site.

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    Microsoft actually have another product called Expression Web which is a simple web page editor.

    Learn more about Microsoft Expression Web at Creative Bloq
    Download Microsoft Expression Web for free here

  15. #15
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audioforchurch View Post
    You probably know that FrontPage is a Web site design tool. But it has another major role that's important to remember: FrontPage is also a Web site management tool.

    How do you use FrontPage to help you manage your site? Here are examples of what you can do:

    Add, rename, delete, or move around files (without doing it in Microsoft Windows Explorer)
    Fix problems by using special reports, like the broken hyperlinks report
    Publish a Web site

    The important thing to remember is that these management features are not available when opening and working on single HTML files. They are available only when you open and work on a FrontPage Web site.
    FrontPage essentially had built-in FTP capabilities. If the server had FrontPage extensions installed, only then could you do some of the "special" features.

    Today, you can use 3rd-party FTP tools and link checkers.


    Quote Originally Posted by johnlacey View Post
    Microsoft actually have another product called Expression Web which is a simple web page editor.

    Learn more about Microsoft Expression Web at Creative Bloq
    Download Microsoft Expression Web for free here
    Expression Web has been discontinued as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Expression Web has been discontinued as well.
    True but it is still quite useful, especially for newbies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    FrontPage essentially had built-in FTP capabilities. If the server had FrontPage extensions installed, only then could you do some of the "special" features.

    Today, you can use 3rd-party FTP tools and link checkers.
    Yes, but if you're using ftp for website deployment, you're doing it wrong.

  18. #18
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaarrrggh View Post
    Yes, but if you're using ftp for website deployment, you're doing it wrong.
    What makes you say that?

    Granted, SFTP is sometimes available (but not always), and sometimes hosts have deployment packages available (though it varies from host-to-host whether or not they are kept up-to-date), but FTP is very much still alive.
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    FTP is just not the right way to do it.

    Consider that you have these disadvantages:

    1) It's VERY slow. Need to upload 1000 files in different directories? Go make a cup of coffee. Go make a full meal for that matter.
    2) You can't track what has been uploaded and by whom
    3) Because of the above, it's VERY easy to have different developers working on the same project go out of sync. It's so easy for me to upload a file without realising I'm undoing another dev's previous changes - leads to stuff breaking all the time
    4) If something breaks, you have to manually try to fix it - prepare to have real users of your system seeing broken stuff quite often.
    5) Because it takes so long for files to upload, even if your new code changes work, when uploading a bunch of files at once for an update, your site will be in a semi or non working state while the upload is in progress
    6) You have to actually remember all the files you've changed. Changed 50 files, including html/css/php/js for a single update? That's cool. Now you either have to remember each one individually (VERY error prone) or upload the whole site again - which again is very slow and leaves the site in a semi-working/non-working state during the process
    7) You can't really branch, and flipping between different features if you want to test them is very hard
    8) Knowing that one server, say production, is in the exact same state as say Staging is basically impossible
    9) It is fundamentally insecure

    I believe these are good enough reasons to never use it.

    The only acceptable use case for ftp for webdev in my opinion is a single dev working on a VERY small site. I can't think of any other circumstances where I'd be happy to use it.

    Bare bones ssh over a terminal and doing git/hg pulls is VASTLY superior to ftp, and that's before you even look at purposely made deployment software.

    Put it this way - if I'm told I HAVE to use ftp to work on something, I'll either turn it down, or I'll just assume the people I'm working with are amateurs.

  20. #20
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaarrrggh View Post
    1) It's VERY slow. Need to upload 1000 files in different directories? Go make a cup of coffee. Go make a full meal for that matter.
    Misconception. The time it takes to upload mostly depends upon your upload bandwidth capacity.

    2) You can't track what has been uploaded and by whom
    Sure, if everyone shares the same FTP account. But why do you have so many users uploading to the same directory that you can't keep track of them?

    3) Because of the above, it's VERY easy to have different developers working on the same project go out of sync. It's so easy for me to upload a file without realising I'm undoing another dev's previous changes - leads to stuff breaking all the time
    You shouldn't be using FTP as a development environment. You need version control software, such as CVS or Git. (Here's a sitepoint article which gives an overview of Git: http://www.sitepoint.com/the-designe...he-repository/ )

    4) If something breaks, you have to manually try to fix it - prepare to have real users of your system seeing broken stuff quite often.
    Something tells me you're not using a CMS. FTP has nothing to do with this. Somebody simply isn't very good at managing files on the server.

    5) Because it takes so long for files to upload, even if your new code changes work, when uploading a bunch of files at once for an update, your site will be in a semi or non working state while the upload is in progress
    Again, it sounds like you have upload capacity limitations.

    6) You have to actually remember all the files you've changed. Changed 50 files, including html/css/php/js for a single update? That's cool. Now you either have to remember each one individually (VERY error prone) or upload the whole site again - which again is very slow and leaves the site in a semi-working/non-working state during the process
    Again, version control.

    7) You can't really branch, and flipping between different features if you want to test them is very hard
    I don't know what you're saying here, but again, it sounds like a development/versioning problem. Not an FTP problem.

    8) Knowing that one server, say production, is in the exact same state as say Staging is basically impossible
    This sounds like another software development problem, rather than a problem with FTP.

    9) It is fundamentally insecure
    Ok, finally one point that is directly related to FTP. Yes, usernames/passwords and data are sent in the clear. Check with your host to see if SFTP is available.

    I believe these are good enough reasons to never use it.
    Only 1 or 2 of your points are directly related to problems with FTP. The others are problems that arise during the course of software development or because of too many cooks in the kitchen.

    The only acceptable use case for ftp for webdev in my opinion is a single dev working on a VERY small site. I can't think of any other circumstances where I'd be happy to use it.
    FTP has uses beyond web development.

    Bare bones ssh over a terminal and doing git/hg pulls is VASTLY superior to ftp, and that's before you even look at purposely made deployment software.
    In terms of security and version control, yes.

    Put it this way - if I'm told I HAVE to use ftp to work on something, I'll either turn it down, or I'll just assume the people I'm working with are amateurs.
    Don't assume this. There can be several practical reasons as to why folks use FTP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Misconception. The time it takes to upload mostly depends upon your upload bandwidth capacity.
    Not true. It's just really slow. A thousand files means a thousand read/write operations - each file is individually uploaded and so it takes a long time. Even with awesome bandwidth, it's still slow to upload 1000+ individual files.


    Sure, if everyone shares the same FTP account. But why do you have so many users uploading to the same directory that you can't keep track of them?
    I'm talking about using ftp for deployment, but not only this - the idea of many developers deploying over ftp at the same time. Means things go out of sync on the server easily.

    You shouldn't be using FTP as a development environment. You need version control software, such as CVS or Git. (Here's a sitepoint article which gives an overview of Git: http://www.sitepoint.com/the-designe...he-repository/ )
    I don't use ftp. I use version control already. That's kinda the point I'm making. I don't use ftp for development or deployment or anything else for that matter.

    Something tells me you're not using a CMS. FTP has nothing to do with this. Somebody simply isn't very good at managing files on the server.
    I have no idea what you are going on about with this comment. Not using a CMS? What has this got to do with anything? What are you referring to my management of files for? I never experience any of these problems.

    Again, it sounds like you have upload capacity limitations.
    No.

    Again, version control.
    Which I already use (what is your point?)



    I don't know what you're saying here, but again, it sounds like a development/versioning problem. Not an FTP problem.
    I'm talking about doing this directly on a live server. If you use git/mercurial on the server itself (and deploy that way), then you can actually have branches on the server and flip between them. It's especially good for staging environments. It's not a problem. I don't have a problem.


    This sounds like another software development problem, rather than a problem with FTP.
    I don't have a problem. Using ftp for deployment means you can't do this on the server so easily. SSH'ing into the machine and using VC means you can guarantee versions between different servers are identical.

    Ok, finally one point that is directly related to FTP. Yes, usernames/passwords and data are sent in the clear. Check with your host to see if SFTP is available.

    I don't need to check anything with my host, because I install everything on the machine and manage all my servers myself, from the command line. I don't use sftp, just like I don't use ftp. For anything.


    Only 1 or 2 of your points are directly related to problems with FTP. The others are problems that arise during the course of software development or because of too many cooks in the kitchen.
    No, they are all legitimately related to using ftp for deploying websites.


    FTP has uses beyond web development.
    Never said it didn't. I'm not talking about ftp itself. I'm talking about using ftp for deploying websites, which you should never do.

    In terms of security and version control, yes.
    Which is the entire point I was making.

    Don't assume this. There can be several practical reasons as to why folks use FTP.
    Examples?

  22. #22
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    FTP is a perfectly valid way to transfer files, so long as you understand its limitations. Its name tells you what it's designed to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by aaarrrggh View Post
    Not true. It's just really slow. A thousand files means a thousand read/write operations - each file is individually uploaded and so it takes a long time. Even with awesome bandwidth, it's still slow to upload 1000+ individual files.
    You can increase the number of simultaneous uploads (filezilla has this feature), which speeds up the process. However, it does transfer each file in its entirety, which does slow down the process when compared to versioning systems, which only transfer the changes.

    I'm talking about using ftp for deployment, but not only this - the idea of many developers deploying over ftp at the same time. Means things go out of sync on the server easily.
    That's a matter of either choosing the right tool for the job, or a problem with too many cooks in the kitchen.

    I have no idea what you are going on about with this comment. Not using a CMS? What has this got to do with anything? What are you referring to my management of files for? I never experience any of these problems.
    I've seen where some folks try to manage files on their web server using FTP, when they really should be using a CMS instead to organize things. Of course, if you're talking development source files, this doesn't exactly apply. I was thinking more user-facing downloadable files.


    I don't need to check anything with my host, because I install everything on the machine and manage all my servers myself, from the command line. I don't use sftp, just like I don't use ftp. For anything.
    Not everyone uses their own dedicated box. Some use a managed hosting service.

    Never said it didn't. I'm not talking about ftp itself. I'm talking about using ftp for deploying websites, which you should never do.
    For large-scale deployments, I agree. For small-scale stuff, it's acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    FTP is a perfectly valid way to transfer files, so long as you understand its limitations. Its name tells you what it's designed to do.


    You can increase the number of simultaneous uploads (filezilla has this feature), which speeds up the process. However, it does transfer each file in its entirety, which does slow down the process when compared to versioning systems, which only transfer the changes.


    That's a matter of either choosing the right tool for the job, or a problem with too many cooks in the kitchen.


    I've seen where some folks try to manage files on their web server using FTP, when they really should be using a CMS instead to organize things. Of course, if you're talking development source files, this doesn't exactly apply. I was thinking more user-facing downloadable files.



    Not everyone uses their own dedicated box. Some use a managed hosting service.


    For large-scale deployments, I agree. For small-scale stuff, it's acceptable.
    The whole point I was making is that FTP is not appropriate for website deployment. For transferring a couple of files across the internet, it's fine, but for actually deploying websites it sucks.

    Another problem I have with ftp is that in my experience, people who use it for deployment generally don't use version control, and even worse - often they setup their IDE (which for people deploying websites via FTP is usually something quite poor like Dreamweaver) to automatically upload files when they save them after editing. I've seen people say this is one of their favourite "features" of their IDE before now - this is something that shouldn't even be possible. It's so dangerous.

    My experience with using FTP for deployment in practice has been entirely negative. People should be using either a direct ssh connection to pull from a remote repository, or some other dedicated deployment service that handles everything for them.

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    Try Evrsoft First Page. It is free, and easy to use. What I like about it is, you can use wysiwyg and html at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valplan1 View Post
    Try Evrsoft First Page. It is free, and easy to use. What I like about it is, you can use wysiwyg and html at the same time.
    Yeah, use some rubbish software from 2006!


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