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  1. #76
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Yes, strong compared to how miserable it usually is. If I'm not remebering incorrectly, around half of all eligible voters voted - that's just not enough. We ought to have at least 3 out of 4, in my opinion. Heck, with that number of voters, either side could have blown out the other.

    But we'll never know what would have happened if those people had done what I consider to be every American's DUTY. People sacrificed their lives, and sometimes the lives of their families as well so we could have this privelage (yes, PRIVELAGE)...and it really upsets me when someone says that "all of them are terrible" and "it's pointless to vote."

    As bad as I think Gore is, I think his intentions are good. And obviously I do not believe Bush is corrupt - and his intentions are certainiy good as well. Even if, for the sake of argument, they ARE both totally corrupt, one of them is taking the White House anyway - so pick one and deal.

  2. #77
    Carpe Chicken Chicken's Avatar
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    All I can say is, that both candidates will do whatever they feel will serve them best in all of this. Annette is strongly opposed to Bush's actions but I don't think that Gore would do anything different if the roles were reversed. These are self serving requests and suits, nothing for the interest of the people. Both are guilty of this.

    Also note that you could recount the vote 60 times by hand, by computer, etc., and you'll never get the same numbers twice. If there were double punched ballots, then I'd have to assume that an equal number of voters did this for both sides.

    My solution:

    President Bush and Vice President Gore

    *runs away and hides*

    [Edited by Chicken on 11-12-2000 at 12:25 PM]
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  3. #78
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    It's not a privilege to vote - it's a right, to be exercised or not, as an individual sees fit. It disturbs me that so many people are apparently uninterested in exercising this particular right, but what people have fought for (and sacrificed) over the years gives those people the freedom they have to make that decision.

    Chicken: I am strongly opposed to any action that has the effect of ignoring the will of the people (or that has such a shaky basis, legally). This mess in FL will be sorted out by the voters and by the elections people. It has nothing to do with either campaign, and they should just let things take their course. It's not as if we don't have awhile before the final decision must be made.

    [Edited by Annette on 11-12-2000 at 12:25 PM]
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  4. #79
    Carpe Chicken Chicken's Avatar
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    P.S. did Steph. forward you that Florida election ballot I sent her?
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  5. #80
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Annette
    It's not a privilege to vote - it's a right, to be exercised or not, as an individual sees fit. It disturbs me that so many people are apparently uninterested in exercising this particular right, but what people have fought for (and sacrificed) over the years gives those people the freedom they have to make that decision.
    A right, but also a privelage. It's a right to have freedom of speech - but I consider it a privelage in the sense that not everyone has it, and I feel privelaged to have that right.

    Yes, they have their choice, but seeing as how people gave their lives so we could vote, it upsets me that some people would rather go to the movies than just study up a tiny bit on the candidates to make an educated decision. In some cases, it's a downright insult to those who have sacrificed.

    Originally posted by Annette

    Chicken: I am strongly opposed to any action that has the effect of ignoring the will of the people (or that has such a shaky basis, legally). This mess in FL will be sorted out by the voters and by the elections people. It has nothing to do with either campaign, and they should just let things take their course. It's not as if we don't have awhile before the final decision must be made.
    I for the most part agree, but when a manual count in FOUR PRO-GORE COUNTIES is scheduled, legal action needs to be taken. How can 4 counties accurately represent the state?

    Manually count the state by hand, count the absentees, and be done with it. Annette: would you consider that a fair way of weeding this out? How 'bout you, Chicken?

  6. #81
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    Not really, I believe the turnout was around 50% or less. A few states had turnouts less than 35% I believe.

  7. #82
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    I think the entire state of Florida needs to have a re-vote. That will positively conclude the results of the election and toss all these frivilous lawsuits out the window. I'm sick and tired of hearing all these analysts do their analyzing based on predictions and biased information. Common sense would really come in handy...

  8. #83
    SitePoint Addict Macromedia's Avatar
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    Of course the best thing would be to have the intire state of Florida revote, but that's not going to happen.

    About the re-counts, Bush seems to only have a problem with them in Florida. He requested one in New mexico and he is ahead by 4 votes(!) there now. He doesn't seem to have any problem with that.

    Also, he is filling a lawsuit trying to stop the hand re-counts in Florida while he himself signed a law in Texas saying that hand re-counts are more accurate than machine votes.

    Also, Bush is allowed to file for his own recounts in Florida.
    -Nick

  9. #84
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    No, he is not allowed to file now that the 72-hour window has passed.

    Bush is NOT against hand recounts, he is against the current recount in which only 4 counties (all Pro Gore!) are being counted - try to tell me that's a fair way to recount.

    Ugh, doesn't anyone READ what I say, or what? I've said that 100 times in this thread.

    And no, a revote in FLA would be nuts - the potential for corruption is off the scale. People have voted already - we HAVE a system to deal with problems within the vote, and the system does not call for a revote, for specific reasons.

  10. #85
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    I agree that it is pointless to revote. People would be voting based on the past vote. But I support Gore. I think Bush would do the same if he was in the same position as Gore.

    Also, Gore needs to think what he is doing to the stock market. If he keeps this going, the market will keep going down, big time.

    Gore for Prez.

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  11. #86
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    Regardless of what everybody thinks about a revote, I don't believe there is any law authorizing it.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
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  12. #87
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    OK... I might hurt some people's feeling with this, but this is my NEUTRAL opinion seen through the eyes of an European (now you can say wtf do we need to listen to an European, well how do those Youguslav think when the USA come and say they have to revote?). Well the opinion in Europe is that Gore has to be president. We have had wars (USA only one I think) and we know (Hitler...) what kind of people could cause wars. Bush is a dumb person. that's obvious. He didn't even knew the vice-president of India, and that's the second largest country in the world. He also didn't even know about American movies and stuff. Now, ok you Americans might think: 'mmm Bush promises less taxes, yet harder and effective punishment against crime, yade yade' also Republicans mostly invest in Defense. Well, America, I must say, I don't think the rest of the world will agree, you guys building a Rocket shield over your continent with our money. As you might now America has huge depths and I don't think Bush plans on paying them back. Well he probably can't count to 10 but anyway if you are willing to make the same mistkae as the Germans did in 1930+ vote for Bush. If you feel anything for your own life and that of the rest of the world (d'uh America is not the only country in the world) and if you want the internet and other economies to grow even bigger, vote Gore. Clinton has done a GREAT job as President, he has made mistakes but those were private. Gore is obvisously a very intelligent man.

    Another thing is, it is VERY suspicious that just in the state where GW Bush's brother is governor there have to be that many revotes and each time the number varies. I can't remember one election in Europe in the paste let's say 40 years where that has happened. My guess is make Gore president or revote, as more people voted for Gore than for Bush, which means the majority actually wants a revote. Majority wins, that is democratic. Not winner takes it all, that's communist.

  13. #88
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    I must agree with Freesources. And i'm european too.
    Bush went only THREE times out of america, what's his experience in dealing with other countries ?
    In case you don't know it, there are huge clichés about America, in Europe. Well, at least in France. We always see you as a dumb super-powerful nation, which isn't really true, since you're not so powerful, it's the other countries who became weaker after the ravaging wars.
    But if Bush is elected, then i think these clichés might come true, alas.
    And if you look at the actual amount of popular vote, you can see Gore won, from the beginning. But your electoral system is so weird...
    [blogger: zengun] [blogware contributor: wordpress]

  14. #89
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Is this some kind of joke? Shin Ma: the popular vote is not over yet, and is still amazingly close. Last I checked a couple days back Bush was down by 80,000 with over 2 million absentees to be counted.

    As for Bush: he is not dumb Christophe, he is inarticulate but calling him dumb is way off. Clinton, by the way, did not make simply private mistakes - lying under oath, no matter *WHAT* it is about, is a serious problem.

    If the guy can't tell the truth, how can we trust him? Moral character is directly connected to leadership.

    As for Bush's plans - have you read up on them? Not to be rude, but I don't get the impression that you have. Here's the big one for me: Bush is giving us a long overdue tax cut that both his father and Clinton promised us (that we never got), and he's giving people the chance to invest some of their social security money if they want to - that's more power for me and my family, and that's good.

    Again: Bush is not dumb at all...is he good at giving speeches? No, he's not. If he highly quick-witted? Nope! But that doesn't mean he cannot make a good President, and it doesn't mean his policies are bad either.

  15. #90
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    As for Bush's plans - have you read up on them? Not to be rude, but I don't get the impression that you have. Here's the big one for me: Bush is giving us a long overdue tax cut that both his father and Clinton promised us (that we never got), and he's giving people the chance to invest some of their social security money if they want to - that's more power for me and my family, and that's good.
    If you think that is true then you should read up on how Laws are created in the United States. There is a very good reason why major tax cuts haven't been approved under Daddy Bush and Clinton. And that is Congress did not see them as being necessarily prudent. You might say both presidents vetoed certain tax cuts but if Congress wanted them passed then could have overridden the veto.

    The PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES has NO authority to pass laws. Only Congress can do that. That is why we have three separate branches of Government.

    The Congress creates and passes the Laws to the will of the people.
    The Judicial Enforces the Laws under the Constitution of the United States.
    The President Approves the Laws so that they can become active.

    Any Civics Professor worth giving a job to can verify this. Heck you can even learn this by watching SchoolHouse Rock ($14.95 nationwide) a learning cartoon published by ABC in the 1970's and 1980's and republished on Video Cassette and DVD by Disney recently.. The segment that matters is "I'm Just a Bill". Any one in their late 20's and 30's can sing the song to you.

    [Edited by W. Luke on 11-13-2000 at 11:03 AM]
    Wayne Luke
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  16. #91
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    I favor Gore and don't care for Bush at all, but I'm not all that worried about such drastic results as freesources outlines. We do have checks and balances and he would be president, not dictator or monarch. But, I am interested in both your perceptions. Is this a generally held position outside the US?

  17. #92
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Yes, I've heard that, but I'm sure they have power and influence - I think it will get done, especially with the republican majorities that are now in place.

  18. #93
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    The public is very lukewarm about Bush's tax cuts. It all remains to be seen. And, btw, I got the only tax relief I've ever felt from the Clinton administration, for parents of college students. I think that tax relief is very meaningful for students and parents, now that the cost of college is so high. For the younger folks: it wasn't always so hard to afford a decent education.

  19. #94
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    I'm afraid you're all in for a disappointment.

    The count is now final.

    Hubert Humphrey won.

  20. #95
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    The Congress creates and passes the Laws to the will of the people.
    The Judicial Enforces the Laws under the Constitution of the United States.
    The President Approves the Laws so that they can become active.
    Not entirely correct.

    The Legislative branch creates laws
    The Judicial branch interprets the law
    The Executive branch enforces the law

    And of course each branch has the power to override the other branches.

    If a law is passed and the Executive Branch (president) doesn't like it, he can veto it. If the judicial branch doesn't like it they can declare it unconstitutional. If the legislative branch doesn't like the veto they can override it. If the legislative branch doesn't like the Court Ruling they can ammend the constitution.

    Chris


  21. #96
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Originally posted by psalzer
    Is this a generally held position outside the US?
    Yes it is. The whole world almost prays Gore will win after all...

    I *really* hope Gore will win after all, because I'm afraid for a WWIII if Bush builds the rocket shield...

  22. #97
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    I wouldn't worry too much about Bush, should he win.

    From what I hear, they've already got PlayStation2 for him.

    I doubt he'll leave that long enough to do any serious harm.


  23. #98
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Bush is not hitler.

    Talk about fanatic liberals.

  24. #99
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Well ppl didn't know Hitler was like that before....

    Well errr... You Americans are weird who elects a monkey for president??????

    PS: Monkeys are high intelligent animals. Yet they kill eachother over a banana and have hairy butts

  25. #100
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    I don't usually express my opinion on these boards, but this time I can't help myself. Somebody here said that Bush was not stupid, I'm sorry, but in my opinion anybody who can only achieve a 2.1 average is not the brightest bulb in the hall. In addition the man was a drunk until he was 40, how many brain cells can he have left! If you're voting for the "Republician Agenda" OK, but lets not try and pretend that anyone really thinks Bush himself is either qualified or in any way up to the job. We just have to hope that we can get through the next 4 years without too much damage being done. Either way, Bush or Gore, it will be really hard for either to get much done. I'm most concerned about the Supreme Court and what will happen there. If the Republicians have all three branches of the government, things look pretty bleak for women, blacks, gays, and anyone who doesn't follow the tradition so-called Christian philosophy.
    Paula
    The more I learn the less I seem to know!


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