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  1. #101
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toly
    You don't need any of those things to hit the lottery, though.
    But college is like giving you an extra 20,000 (for example) tickets to start out with though. Why not take advantage of it? It only increases your odds.

  2. #102
    SitePoint Wizard Lil_Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol
    But college is like giving you an extra 20,000 (for example) tickets to start out with though. Why not take advantage of it? It only increases your odds.
    College did me absolutely no good when it came to getting a job. I honestly don't feel that people are just parroting what they read. Business mags say "college helps you network" so everyone starts saying that.

    In all honesty, unless you're going somewhere like MIT or CalTech, you're wasting your time on the "network" front. Most kids go to college for one reason - to party while still having the security of mom & dad.

  3. #103
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    This is like debating abortion... you know where you stand and there's not much that will sway you, eh?

    Anyway, this is where I stand; this is my opinion on the issue. College isn't going to turn Joe Smith into a marketable supergod just like the non-college-educated James Smith isn't going to be a devoted worker just because he chose not to go to college. It all depends on what the person wants to do with their life. If someone knows what they really want to do and they're devoted towards their work they can probably do what they want no matter if they go to college or not. It's a nil issue. But college gives you so much more than reading stuff out of a book can. You get experiences that you can't get anywhere else. It's the only time in your life you can experience them too. You get people skills, you make connections and network, you learn from amazing professors, you learn to collaborate. You can't just expect to pick this stuff up on your own.

    Besides, why ruin the "best times" of your life by going to work? In the large scheme of things two or four years doesn't mean much. Going to college, in my opinion, means that you're serious enough about your life to make such a choice.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil_Red
    Umm, Bill Gates & Steve Jobs never went to college. My husband never completed college and he makes more than any of our college grad friends.
    I'm not familiar with Steve Jobs' bio, but Bill Gates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. His future was assured the day he entered the Lakeside School for Boys.

    I have a BS degree (and we all know what the BS stands for, right?), and I have mixed feelings about it. From a practical point of view, I feel that it was largely a waste. But almost every job I've ever had - wildlife biologist, park ranger, teacher - required a college degree. It's just one of those things.

    None of my high-tech projects have anything to do with college, since I never studied computers in college. Of course, I'm hardly a sucess; I'm just beginning to make a little money writing content, and I hope to resume earning some money from advertising on my websites.

    But I acquired my writing skills on my own, not in college.

    In summary, college doesn't always help you do a better job, but it may help you GET a job - even if that job has nothing to do with what you learned in school.

  5. #105
    SitePoint Enthusiast kaos's Avatar
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    college = one more tool in your tool box. Defintely not a liability.

    IMO if you are designers, it more art related, so a portfolio is probably more important than a formal degree. On the other hand you rarely see any engineer/accountants etc without a degree. When you are competing against another person with equal skill/experience then degree may be the difference.

  6. #106
    Free your mind Toly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol
    But college is like giving you an extra 20,000 (for example) tickets to start out with though. Why not take advantage of it? It only increases your odds.
    I'm not sure what you mean. I never said that going to college is a bad thing. I was just trying to point out that it's wrong to assume that the success of one man was pure luck and that it didn't take any hard work to achieve it.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil_Red
    Most kids go to college for one reason - to party while still having the security of mom & dad.
    I would disagree there. That's a frivolous over-generalization.

  8. #108
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    Interesting thread

    In aswer to the topic: How much does college matter? I'd say, "as much as you want it to."

    Obviously, everyone has different opinions on studying. It helps some people get jobs, it doesn't help others. It helps some people make money, it doesn't help others. You can be successful with or without a college education. For some, college is a means to an end. For others, it's an end in itself. There is no definitive answer.

    I say: think about what you want out of life, then see if something like college fits into the picture.

    By this, I don't mean "think about what job you want, and then see if a college education is a prerequisite." I'm saying think about what you really want to do with your life, then work out how to get there. College may appear on the list; it may not

    ...just in case you're wondering (and for yet another "middle of the road" statement), yes, I went to uni. I don't regret it, nor would I recommend it.


    g

  9. #109
    SitePoint Member jentekk's Avatar
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    Cool Does College matter...

    Hiya WabbitDawg!

    In this day and age, a college degree definitely doesn't hurt and probably would help... but there is no guarantee that it will help... perhaps you should flip a coin!
    You really are at the whim of the different personalities/priorities of the various companies you apply for. Follow your heart... that way you will never have any regrets.
    Good luck, I'm sure you will do just awesome... you are already well on your way!

    Cheers,
    Jen

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitdog
    Hi all -
    I am entirely self-taught in my profession, and have made sure that I read a helluvalot of material beyond how-to books (which, ironically, I've rarely touched). I've never worked on particularly high profile projects, but I have had a fairly steady stream of work since I started. For a brief period, I worked full-time, offsite, for a company prominant in its industry. I have also written a few articles that have been published in nationally circulated magazines.

    But I still don't have a college degree.

    I'm considering jumping into the job market to find a fulltime design job in a few months, and my question is this - How much does college matter?
    Jeannette Duguay
    JenTekk Web Solutions - Website Design & Development

    www.jentekk.ca ~ www.blog.jentekk.com ~ www.tazzu.com

  10. #110
    reputation consultant ThaVincy's Avatar
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    My two cents:

    I started working as a 16 year old student at Belgium's number one ISP. I was so tired of school after Highschool I wanted to go and explore business right after. When I graduated there at the age of 18, I went to college under pressure of my father. I decided to go for a Marketing degree, but I dropped out after 6 months because I reasoned I could learn faster and more orientated by myself and while working.

    Two weeks after I dropped out I started my own business with my girlfriend (my wife now). We are 3 years later now and we are working the high-profile clients now, everyone knows our name and I've never been asked for my degrees.

    This year I completed a course in Image Consultancy, so I have 'some' kind of degree. I figure IF things go wrong with Twizted one day, I'll have years of experience and lots of refferences to go by. But I guess that's different depending on where you live (nation/continent, economy, ...).

    Reading job-ads learns me most companies ask for a degree for high profile functions, but nowadays experience and skills are more important. I've been hired on those bases aswell.
    ThaVincy | redesigning your image
    Twizted Imagebuilding personal and corporate reputation solutions

  11. #111
    Are You There? KDesigns's Avatar
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    I apologize if I am reiterating another post on this thread.

    A College Education is extremely worthwile in any career. I myself am self-taught, no college, but I strongly agree with college... just not in the typical sense.

    I suggest going to college and taking some classes in graphic design or computer science. However, I suggest you major in Business.

    A lot of web design and development is self-taught or learnt through experience. You can become the greatest designer/developer on the face of the planet. However, if you do not have the business knowledge you will most always end up working for someone else.
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  12. #112
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    It seems to be a common theme that entrepreneurs do not value the college experience over going straight into work. I agree that if you are working for yourself and have no plans for working for anyone else, then you don;t need a college education. But for the other 99% of the workforce out there that depends on someone else to pay their salaries, getting a degree can make all the difference in the world.

    There are pros and cons with both sides of the argument. It really all depends on what the individual goals of each person are.

  13. #113
    Are You There? KDesigns's Avatar
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    I do agree completely with that! That's why I think you should take classes in business if heading to college. With good practice and technique you learn through experience the in's and out's of designing and developing. If you are going to invest time and money into a college education, major in business. Couple the designing and developing skills taught and learned from experience with the business knowledge from school, and you are left with a mighty combination.
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  14. #114
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    I think it comes down to knowledge and people. If a person has great people skills and loves to learn on their own (and takes the initiative to do so) then college may not be the best idea.

    For me college has been up to this point about learning to deal with people and tackling issues that come up in the business world. I have noticed that college is focused more on the corporate world when it gets into things like marketing and management but the concepts can be applied to small businesses as well. They focus on the corporate issues because that is what they are preparing their students to take part in.

    Most of the recruiters at my school are big corporations and they want corporate skills and what the recruiters want is usually what gets taught.

    However, I really think that a person can be successful with or without college (I mean, look at Bill Gates )

  15. #115
    SitePoint Zealot Dano's Avatar
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    This is an excerpt from amazon.com. Its about "how to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie (i hope you know him)

    Financial success, Carnegie believed, is due 15 percent to professional knowledge and 85 percent to "the ability to express ideas, to assume leadership, and to arouse enthusiasm among people.

    If you have read sitepoints articles by Brendon Synclair, or by Andrew Eitlich, or if you have read something by Kotler (the marketing guru), you must know that Carnegie is their grandfather. The book was wrote in 1937, and today is still quoted.

    Before getting it, i asked around 30 succesful people i know to tell me 2 recommended books. 20/30 choose this one. So i read it.

    You know what? This book DONT figure as a recommended reading at 5 different universities (ive personally checked).

    (i have to say that i learn a lot at university, especially about planning, understanding statistical data, calculating roi, and developed skills to organizate spread info).

    WHY this book (among others) are not being reading at Universities?
    I think that it is because Carnegie is not an academic.

    Its quite simple. At academic circles they respect and recommend academic things.

    I know that i can learn a LOT of new and useful (and funny ) things in a date with a porno actress. I mean, those things will never be teachd at academic circles.

    There are some things that you can learn at university and others that you MUST learn experimenting. Its a choice.
    ---
    Dano De Weert
    ---

  16. #116
    .::Pixel PIMP::. Andrew K's Avatar
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    Knowledge is no burden to carry..

  17. #117
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    Hi,
    As a former hiring manager fore web designers and programmers I would say do not let a college dgree get in the way if you have creative talent. Our best designer in my last position was a high school student that over the course of a few years was making equivalent money. We couldn't afford to let the person go. My thoughts

  18. #118
    SitePoint Member digory's Avatar
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    If you must get a degree, do it quickly

    I'm 24 years old and never went to college. I myself am perfectly happy being an employer.

    However, a degree can be helpful if you want to be an employee. So, in this case, a degree is just a piece of paper. You already have the knowledge and experience from your real-world training.

    The fastest way to obtain that piece of paper is with distance learning. I highly recommend the book Accelerated Distance Learning, which will show you how to get an accredited degree in 6 months or more.

    The author's website is http://globallearningstrategies.org/ (but do me a favor and buy the book from my client, above ).

    Additionally, you might find this autoresponse email helpful: discount-colleges at kbotFROMMARS.com (remove caps).

  19. #119
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    I have perceived and experienced college to be a great place to learn and get to know people.

    However, I have never considered a college degree and/or major to be crucial when stepping into the real world. 9/10 times, you are learning general core material that has nothing to do with what you intend in the future -- but, it's receiving knowledge in other aspects of life that makes college worthwhile.

    So if you're looking to get into college because of your necessity for employment, it can't hurt to enroll. Just remember, most 4-year doctoral colleges aren't there to teach you specifically for your future line of work; you should consider the tangential benefits.

  20. #120
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saint
    However, I have never considered a college degree and/or major to be crucial when stepping into the real world.
    It can be a major factor when you have little or no experience. While it is true that a degree is not necessary, it can certainly bridge the gap when it comes to looking for that first job. Besides the degree, you get the networking benefits of your classmates and the affiliated business of the college/uni. It's all about who you know as they say.

  21. #121
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    In my case, I attend RIT, and they make it mandatory to have 3 co-ops under your belt before you can graduate. So, in this instance, I'm put into the job market with good experience from, potentially, three different companies, and then the IT degree w/ a web-database focus and minor on top of it. I'd suggest if you do get your degree, go all out and get into a good tech school, otherwise just keep building your portfolio.

    Also, often you're paid less without a college degree than with, which is bull**** if you're experienced enough, but that's the way the world's turning unfortunately...

  22. #122
    My true identity MaxS's Avatar
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    I personally think college has a huge impact on your life. Some people may under-estimate the importance of it...

    In my opinion, a college degree is everything. I think that employers would want people with a degree even if they may not have the experience.

  23. #123
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    line of work

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxS
    In my opinion, a college degree is everything. I think that employers would want people with a degree even if they may not have the experience.
    Not necessarily. It would depend on the type of work you do. If you're a high school dropout, but your voice sounds like the next Celine Dion, then whether you have a bachleor's or a doctoral's degree has no relevance to your ability to produce quality music for your audience.

    Give me a choice between someone who has had 10 years of network engineering experience over someone who just got their CCNA and experience takes precedence anyday.

    There seems to be a modern-day stigma that someone without a college degree is worthless or is not 'as good' as someone who does possess one. This is not always the case.

  24. #124
    SitePoint Member geop23's Avatar
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    After freelancing for about 7-8 years, I decided to go back to schoool. I see the value in advancing from a designer/developer to a true project manager - my degree is a BS in E-business, with plans to go back for the MBA in the same dicipline.

    I see going back as one of the smartest things I ever did. The experience gave me a whole new perspective on doing business, productivity, and management (in regards to time, projects, people, etc.). If you get the opportunity, do it. Jsut don't do it because you think you have to, because you won't get as much out of it.

  25. #125
    SitePoint Zealot Dorsey's Avatar
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    Not having a formal degree hasn't hurt me one iota as a techie, but I can say that it has caused me to fight a lot harder to get where I am, and to make my own breaks rather than reply on a degree to make them for me. Recently in the U.S., where there are too many people chasing too few tech jobs, college can be a discriminator that keeps otherwise talented people from exposure to companies where they would have been very successful. In the old (pre dot-com bust) days, nobody really cared, and the best people I worked with, or who worked for me, either had no degrees, or had non-technical degrees in the humanities, Russian studies, journalism, history, economics, communication, etc. The very worst were those with degrees in computer science, and I never hired one myself.

    On the other hand, I know many people with advanced degrees who are now working in non-tech fields because there are just no tech jobs, and those degrees haven't been any help at all. It's very easy to find someone with a BSEE or MSME working alongside those hanging wallpaper, laying tile, mowing lawns, delivering packages, installing doors, and selling ice cream. A bit of a waste of CPU power, as we say.

    I guess that I'd say having a degree of some sort, preferably one relevant to one's job, is worthwhile. In the U.S., it does open more doors, even that means not categorically disqualifying a person. I think the hot ticket at this time is an engineering degree and an MBA with five or more years of work experience in the field, but that's now - who knows what the best combo will be ten or so years from now when that has been attained? As we've all learned since early 2001, it's a moving target.


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