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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil_Red
    True. At the time I was in college (quite a few years ago now), women were not respected or acknowledged in the computer science field. I had to fight to even be allowed to be a CS major. My fellow students gave quite a few not so subtle jabs that I shouldn't be part of the program but should focus on something more "appropriate".
    Wow, that sounds like an incredibly sexist attitude.

    I'm a CS major now and it's the complete opposite. Everyone wants more women in CS.

  2. #52
    My precious!!! astericks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil_Red
    True. At the time I was in college (quite a few years ago now), women were not respected or acknowledged in the computer science field. I had to fight to even be allowed to be a CS major. My fellow students gave quite a few not so subtle jabs that I shouldn't be part of the program but should focus on something more "appropriate".
    You'll be happy with this then:
    http://www.sfu.ca/mediapr/sfu_news/a...s10210413.html


    Though the CS population at univ is predominanltly male, there are a lot of females too, mostly overseas students from asia though

  3. #53
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    M. Johansson,
    Thanks, a nice comment is a lot better then some random point on a vb3 feature that no one should have enabled!

    pfitz,
    Any employer is going to take someone with 5 or 10 years of experience over someone fresh out of college, only I fool wouldn't do that. However, when it comes to someone with a few years of entry level experience and a high school certificate or someone with a 4 year or even a vocational degree the water becomes a lot murkier. If the job is just a job and not an attempt to gain a new employee for a career then I suppose minor experience wins but for a business looking for long term team players education tends to do better.
    - Ted S

  4. #54
    + platinum's Avatar
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    The thing is, pretty much anyone can 'pass' a college course or attain some sort of degree, it doesn't give you much of an idea of what that person can do - some of the slopppiest programers and most average designers I've seen are qualified in this way, and I certainly wouldn't hire them, it's just a piece of paper which says you've attended a college, doesn't tell me much about what you can actually do realistically.

    We had a graphic designer type person send his resume in, degree in multimedia, well written letter, but the fact was the examples of work he sent in was what you'd see if you bought frontpage and used a 'create website wizard' combined with MS paint graphics.

    Obviously all employers work differently with their selection criteria.

  5. #55
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    Yes, most anyone can get a degree of some sorts... but how many people are going to spend 4 years working to get a degree at a well known school and work to obtain a high gpa without also accomplishing something? There are always a few people who get in and do nothing but some how do well but really that's a rare case so long as you pay attention to the school, the degree and the grades. A degree is not meant to say this person is qualified to run your business or they have all the answers but rather it shows something about them and their commitment. Your interview should follow up on any resume to verrify that they actually did what they stated and did it well enough for it to be of value be it a college education, vocational degree or work experience of any sort.

    In freelance and creative fields a portfolio is a second piece of the puzzle not to be overlooked. Education does not by any means imply a practical ability, thats not the idea.
    - Ted S

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by platinum
    The thing is, pretty much anyone can 'pass' a college course or attain some sort of degree, it doesn't give you much of an idea of what that person can do - some of the slopppiest programers and most average designers I've seen are qualified in this way, and I certainly wouldn't hire them, it's just a piece of paper which says you've attended a college, doesn't tell me much about what you can actually do realistically.
    I'm proof of the 'anyone can attain a degree' thing: I have six. I've had to hire people and I usually get crap when I say I'm not hiring the college graduate because he doesn't know what he's doing. If the world ran like it did in the book, he might be okay but not in a real-world situation.

  7. #57
    Free your mind Toly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol
    Gates himself said in later years that he was stupid and that he regrets not finishing his education- in fact, he implores students to go get a college education.
    Well, it's always about giving an example. Obviously, he would have never said something like not going to college was the best decision he ever made, even if it really was. After all, college is part of the life cycle (born->grow->high school->college->job->marriage->kids->oldness->death) and if you don't follow the middle part of it no matter the order, people will always look wierd at you.

    Gates has his own business and makes a lot of money. I don't see any stupidity in that.
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    he that is evil is a slave, though he be a king." - St. Augustine

  8. #58
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    DamienArbos

    It all depends on the person. Education does no make the man, man makes the education.

  9. #59
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    its important yes ,, if thats what your asking but there are many things that you can do with an education its just a matter of taking the initiative and making it happen

  10. #60
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    this question obviously varies ... surgeon is going to want a doctrine it really depends what you going to be doing... there are careers that take minimal schooling its all up tooo you man ... just figure out exactly what you wanna do

  11. #61
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    PhilArbos,
    I think the point is that rabbitdog (who is not a man) is uncertain of the necessity of education for a future career. As the thread has developed it seems like there is some debate between the importance of education for the web/internet field and in general. Rumor has it quality counts more than quantity for posts and please, use spell check.
    - Ted S

  12. #62
    SitePoint Wizard Lil_Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted S
    PhilArbos,
    I think the point is that rabbitdog (who is not a man) is uncertain of the necessity of education for a future career. As the thread has developed it seems like there is some debate between the importance of education for the web/internet field and in general. Rumor has it quality counts more than quantity for posts and please, use spell check.
    I wonder if DamienArbos & PhilArbos are the same person ?

  13. #63
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    A degree is the most important thing you can have. Initially in the short term many of you might think it is a waste of time, but in most developed countries around the world it is becoming a standard to have a degree in every field if you want to go places. Fact is degrees are not even that valuable anymore, many are also doing higher degrees. What does it teach you? A hell of alot, unless your institution is awful, most universities do put students through rigorous assessment and passing a course is something i realised is also bad, employers do wish to know your marks as soon as you leave university especially for graduate positions.
    Not getting qualification is very short sighted, at least a degree proves you have used your brain, whether by cheating, studying or wateva, you have used your brain. Its also fact that people with university degrees do earn more than other people with non degrees(also executives are now forced to get higher qualifications to justify promotions) . Not to say you cannot get rich without one you can, but when i roll the dice at least i know i got options if i dont become a millionaire.

  14. #64
    SitePoint Wizard Lil_Red's Avatar
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    I disagree Penfold. You don't need a degree to run your own business or be successful.

    If you want a degree to get a job, you can buy one online and not even do any work to get it.

  15. #65
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    I can also survive a fall off of a skyscraper. But why take the chance anyway? Yes you "can" be successful in life without going to college, but college sure helps (a lot).

  16. #66
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol
    I can also survive a fall off of a skyscraper.
    Off Topic:

    Really? Let's put some on it

  17. #67
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    >Umm, Bill Gates & Steve Jobs never went to college.
    They never finished college.

  18. #68
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    Off Topic:

    Really? Let's put some on it
    Statistically yes, I can. But I don't desire to.


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by quadcity
    >Umm, Bill Gates & Steve Jobs never went to college.
    They never finished college.
    Lets not forget that was two people, one of whom is the richest man in the world. There are others but becoming a super elite like Gates or Jobs is rare... most people here are looking to make a good living, the odds of making billions is rare and really not the issue at hand.
    - Ted S

  20. #70
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    There are studies that say the average person changes careers 3 times in their working life. It may be something to consider. Having a degree will open up more options for you even if it's not relevant to your career choice. Most top CEO's have degrees that do not relate to their industry. But, like everyone else has said, if you are sticking to a "trade" then experience is what counts. But, I say you can't beat experience AND a degree. You will always get experience, whether you have a degree or not.

  21. #71
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moospot
    There are studies that say the average person changes careers 3 times in their working life.
    Changes career, or jobs? IT professionals in the UK change jobs on average every two years, but not career.

  22. #72
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    Changes career, or jobs? IT professionals in the UK change jobs on average every two years, but not career.
    Careers. Though I do seem to get a new job about every 2 years.

  23. #73
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moospot
    Careers. Though I do seem to get a new job about every 2 years.
    Really? Has anyone here changed career in their working life then? My degree was in an unrelated subject to what I'm working in, but I've never changed career since I started work after graduating.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Addict rabbitdog's Avatar
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    Its wild to see this thread still alive after so long; never thought it would keep going this long when I first posted it.

    But, seeing as I first started it, I thought I would revisit it to share my experiences over the past year. Its amazing how much can change in that time.

    Today, I'm the lead artist at a growing t-shirt shop, on the ground floor of a company that will only be growing. Its a full time position that I was offered, ironically, through a friend of a friend - a guy I had been doing freelance work for over the net. In a couple of days, I will have been working here for a year.

    The thing I appreciate the most is that here, it really does come down to what you know and what you can learn. I didn't have any experience with some of the technical aspects of the job, but my skills with artwork, web design, and programming have been invaluable. The rest was learned onsite. The rest I don't think I would have learned at college anyway.

    There is a guy who was brought in recently to work under me. He's 1 year younger than me, and has done the college thing with a degree in design & desktop publishing. Though he accels at some things, its amazing how much more I know than he, even in areas where he has studied. It makes me think.

    Anyway, I guess the bottom line is that I used to feel that college provided some sort of yard stick to measure the worth of someone, that because I hadn't gone, my skills were somehow "less than".

    But now I think its all about getting your foot in the door.

    I know that even without college, especially in this industry, it ultimately comes down to your experience and knowlege, where-ever that may come from.

    I know that next time I look for a job, employers will be looking at what I've done over what college I did or didn't attend.

    And I think that maybe that confidence is half the battle.
    Mr Vector
    High quality, royalty free, vector graphics
    for t-shirt artists and graphic/web designers.

  25. #75
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    Really? Has anyone here changed career in their working life then? My degree was in an unrelated subject to what I'm working in, but I've never changed career since I started work after graduating.
    Some career changes happen gradually, and you may not have to change employers to do so. In the company I'm working at there are programmers who have moved on to sales positions, support people who move into marketing roles, etc.


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