SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot slandry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Right behind you!
    Posts
    128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Making the case against NS4.x

    I'm in the process of re-designing a fairly large international site and I'm putting together some documentation and reccomendations for structure, design etc.

    One major problem we are trying to fix is load time. I'd really like to use CSS for much of the positioning and design and rely less on tables.

    But before I dump the NS4.x crowd I need some fire power to justify why we will be leaving 3-4% of our users out in the cold.

    Here is what I have so far:

    2.3% of the total Browser Market - Browser News

    4.xx does not correctly interpret or render many simple CSS styles.

    Netscape 4.xx is now more than 4 years old (Oct. 1998) and has been developed when CSS was in the planning
    stages.

    Does anyone else have any really good reasons to abandon NS4.x?

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    4,810
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nope nope nope, you don't need to leave them in the cold at all!

    Using "@import" in your css, you can have all the information and navigation perfectly accessible to NS4, it will just look different
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
    922ee590a26bd62eb9b33cf2877a00df
    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  3. #3
    SitePoint Zealot slandry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Right behind you!
    Posts
    128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's the "look different" part I'm worried about.

    Our customers spend between $35,000-$2mil/year to access our site. I'm trying to sell a certain amount of discomfort for certain users.

    Sitepoint looks very different in NS4.7 I'm sure that was part of the calculation when redesigning.

    I'm curious what was the breaking point, pros, cons?

  4. #4
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    in transition
    Posts
    21,235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsour...web-standards/
    and for accessibility...
    http://www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html

    And actually, NS4 is nearly 6 years old (4.0 made its debut in June of 1997).

    Good luck with this. I've tried arguing this with my manager before and every time he wants the site to look and function the same in NS4. I produce XHTML sites when I freelance, but it's probably not a battle I'm going to win at work anytime soon .

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot slandry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Right behind you!
    Posts
    128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vgarcia thanks for the links!

    I'm building an argument and this will definately help. I have management on the fence right now and a little push and my life will be a lot easier not having to deal with 6 year old browsers.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Enthusiast tripp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX USA
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You quote 2-3% of the browser market from Browser News, but just how many of YOUR site's visitors still use 4.7?

    I make it a point of requesting at least 6 month's worth of log data before I start a site redesign for anybody. That way I can get a feel for the site's audience before coding even begins.

    If you find out that less than 1% of total traffic to your site uses Netscape 4.7, then I think that's as good a case as any to take to your boss.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    386
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the argument I usually use is...
    "it will cost you 25% more development time, for 1-3% of your audience, and by developing with CSS those 1-3% will be able to access the basic information anyway, just in a less user friendly way"

  8. #8
    SitePoint Zealot webQS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sydney : Australia
    Posts
    144
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey

    I gave up on NN4 about a year ago. I found I spent less time coding an upgrade page than I did altering code to make a site look reasonable in NN4. Time tweaking for NN4 took me away from valuable work and learning new tech.

    Time to look to the future - Gecko, Opera, Safari and if possible IE - given the latest news.

    I think Opera Moz and NN4 have a similar footprint - the difference is the first two support standards and are current.

    Cheers
    James

  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast stationmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    barcelona
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm with Trip and pissant on this one, you can easily provide a css just for NN4 with the majority of visuals intact, it doesn't have to be a huge cost to provide, I tend to add a hidden div just for NN4 informing them that they could improve their browsing experience by upgradeing their browser , then offer a link to an "older browser page" with more info and browser download links.
    Daiv Mowbray twincascos Barcelona
    wordpress pluginswp-superslider.com
    portfolio portfolio.daivmowbray.com
    personal blogwww.daivmowbray.com

  10. #10
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    in transition
    Posts
    21,235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by stationmaster
    I'm with Trip and pissant on this one, you can easily provide a css just for NN4 with the majority of visuals intact, it doesn't have to be a huge cost to provide, I tend to add a hidden div just for NN4 informing them that they could improve their browsing experience by upgradeing their browser , then offer a link to an "older browser page" with more info and browser download links.
    With anybody I talk to, this is what I mean by "dropping support". I want to make sure the content is still available to any device, but if the layout doesn't look the same between NS4 and Opera 7, I'm not going to fret too much over it .

  11. #11
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    1,766
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    With anybody I talk to, this is what I mean by "dropping support". I want to make sure the content is still available to any device, but if the layout doesn't look the same between NS4 and Opera 7, I'm not going to fret too much over it [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img].
    lately i've just been using @import for my styles and that's it.

    Because my layouts are (in most cases) formatted only by CSS (with layout images in css-defined backgrounds), it's accessible in Netscape 4, but it's almost like a plain-text version.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  12. #12
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    in transition
    Posts
    21,235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fatnewt
    lately i've just been using @import for my styles and that's it.

    Because my layouts are (in most cases) formatted only by CSS (with layout images in css-defined backgrounds), it's accessible in Netscape 4, but it's almost like a plain-text version.
    Same with me, except I keep a "basic" stylesheet around so NS4 still gets decent fonts instead of black Times New Roman. It's a good compromise in my opinion.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •