Different markets. Different target groups.
Different markets. Different target groups.
A search on google for 'phpbb' (sans quotes) returns 2,390,000 results. A search on google for 'vbulletin' returns 1,050,000. Yet another search, this time for 'invision board', returns 99,100.Originally Posted by StateDOG
Let that say what you will about their respective popularity.
And you have a better method of grading the popularity of forums which are used all over the net when only one of them (as far as I can see) lists total downloads and even that is unreliable due to users upgrading and other users not upgrading?
Well, just for your sake:
119 online over past five minutes (max 327)
30 users online over past five minutes (max 150)
23 users online over past five minutes (max 36)
A note.. I'm assuming vBulletin uses 15 minutes for the online count, as I've been told, and as I recall it used to display..if that's wrong, multiply the online numbers for vB by three and divide by whatever to get to the five minute result.
It still says very little as far as popularity goes IMO...
There are other factors to take into account... I'm not going to discuss them, and your posts DO say something, but nothing conclusive...
What I'm saying is it would be like searching George Bush (3,040,000 results) and then searching Clinton (2,010,000 results) and concluding that George Bush is more popular.
What it comes down to are the opinions of the people that use the product and that's the way to judge somethings popularity, not by using Google
Perhaps you're neglecting to remember the fact that George Bush and Bill Clinton aren't primarily mentioned in the footers of sites using software of the same name?
Where are you getting the past 5 minutes?
Open Source, IMO, can destroy some products. It's just how long until someone takes your open source program, modifies it and makes afortune off of it.
The past five minutes is taken from the online count at the bottom of each forum's index page, and divided by the amount required to take it to the five minute count: 1 for phpBB, 3 for vB, and 6 for IPB.
As for open source 'destroying' some products..that's not really a risk when said products are under the GPL..and if they're under more 'permissive' licenses (e.g. the BSD license) that isn't necessarily a bad thing for them either..Apple based OS X on BSD, and that sure as heck didn't kill BSD.
Invisionboard forum = vBulletin
Not in this reality..guess it may be different wherever you come from?
ahh ok i know
I think you need to get your sources right. Read the GPL license and you'll understand why that cannot happen. The GPL was designed to prevent that from happening and that has been causing Micro$oft much agony as they cannot "borrow" code from GPLed applications and use it commercially.Originally Posted by mydster
I have to agree with Palmer to a degree that a google search isn't the definitive popularity tool, but it does carry a little weight. But you also have to figure in the fact that phpbb has been around a good bit longer than IPB as well...there for more downloads, more installs, more emention on the web.
And you didn't really answer my previous question at all. Are you saying that vBulletin will never be as popular as phpbb because of the type of liscensing? Again, measure popularity by search results (which you attributed to many being at the bottom of installed boards) with a free board vs. a pay board isn't accurate. If vBull was free for anyone, you know more would use it instead of phpBB.
Well, they could, but then they'd have to release their software GPLed also which I doubt they have any interest in.Originally Posted by Kail
About the popluarity rating. Google at least proves that there are more phpBB forums out there than vBulletin's or Invison Board's. But I don't think you really can compare the figures as vBulletin has certainly another target group than phpBB (although phpBB and other boards are always trying to get a major chunck from this customer group with IBF's new license now taking the lead in the challenge ).
Well, I doubt we'll find that out, but I agree that the history of bulletin boards on the net would look a lot different today if vBulletin (or UBB for that matter) would have stayed free. But I think you could say the same about certain Microsoft products.Originally Posted by StateDOG
I think that's quite good for IPB when you consider the product has only been available since 15th May 2002. vB has been available since late 2000 and phpBB since early 2001? If you want to forcast the figures IPB would have had if it had been released at the same time as phpBB 1 then you should include the Ikonboard stats for IPB
Interestingly enough, a search tonight on google for "the phpBB group" brings 395,000 results, a search on "powered by vbulletin" returns 643,000 results and a search on "powered by invision power boaard" brings 104,000 results.
I would suggest your logic is flawed for working out the number of users online. Simply dividing by 6 is not guaranteed to get you an accurate figure of who's active within a five minute period. Looking at our online list there are 147 people online - at least 70 of which have made a click within the last 5 minutes.....23 users online over past five minutes (max 36)
It's also interesting that right now phpBB has 97 online users of which only 13 are registered members; vB has 75 members online of which only 25 are members and IPB has 144 online, of which 87 are members.
None of this is conclusive evidence of a product's popularity of course but it's interesting how statistics can be manipulated to give credence to an argument.
Last edited by mattmecham; Jun 5, 2003 at 18:23.
I answered your question. Besides, it isn't relevant. phpBB is developed by volunteers, Jelsoft has paid developers. I have no doubts in the proficiency of phpBB's developers but Jelsoft's are paid and can therefore spend much more time, which means development time is a lot faster.Originally Posted by StateDOG
phpBB and IPB are good, they're competitors and Jelsoft knows this (no matter how much they deny it) and forces them to keep prices low and make several improvements that would have been made otherwise. Now, some of those are direct thefts from open-source boards (not code, but design and thought, stealing GPL code is dangerous!).
I wish that people didn't think that just because people get paid it makes them better. It's a flawed logic.
When the paid, professional team of vB developers started vB3 I was just finishing up Ikonboard 3. In the time it's taken these professional, paid developers to write vB3 I've written a brand new board and released two major updates and phpBB has released a major update and are soon to release their second big release. I'm not sure your comments are still valid...which means development time is a lot faster...
Then again, if you're getting paid by the hour - what's the rush? Getting the product devloped quickly just means that you'll stop being paid sooner.
Many phpbb boards do not use the same copyright notice, and many do not contain "the phpbb group".Interestingly enough, a search tonight on google for "the phpBB group" brings 395,000 results, a search on "powered by vbulletin" returns 643,000 results and a search on "powered by invision power boaard" brings 104,000 results
Plus, many phpbb boards simply have removed the phpbb copyright since it is in their rights to do so.
Finally about the google argument, it is flawed because it depends on who has made their board SE accessible and who has not. A simple board configured for google accessibility can get more pages indexed than a very popular board who didn't do the job (eg sitepoint forums have only 330 pages indexed in google).
Actually you didn't. I'll ask it again and ask for a "yes" or "no" question. You said that IPB will never be as popular as phpBB because of GPL. You said thatOriginally Posted by KailSo my question is "Are you saying vBull will never be as popular as phpbb n the exact same way because of it's licensing?"Originally Posted by Kail
Not trying to argue and cause a stir, but I just didn't think you'd answered the question.
I can't and won't argue that it's a foolproof method, or even a broadly accurate one..but as I speak now there are only 30 who have made a click in the last 5 minutes, out of 133 online during the past half hour.Originally Posted by mattmecham
Perhaps measuring online count by clicks during the past half hour is inaccurate..who spends half an hour on one page of a forum, regularly, while still using the forum?
Couldn't agree more.Originally Posted by mattmecham
How can you steal from Open Source? I mean isn't that contradictory to the nature of the beast? Even GPL says that you can do what you want with the code no matter what anyone else says.Originally Posted by Kail
Features are Features. This is almost as old as saying Microsoft stole the icon from Apple. Big deal, each feature doesn't make a product. It is how they are tied together and presented.
Untrue. The GPL, while a F/OSS software license, exists to restrict what people can do with the code.Originally Posted by W. Luke
Features are a different matter.