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  1. #1
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    PHP ASP.NET Question

    I'm just wondering, with a MySQL Database backend, which would be faster and more powerfull, using PHP or ASP.NET to access the database. I know NOTHING about PHP, not even sure what it is, but there are a lot of good books, and I found one in SitePoint Books, which I might want to get about PHP and MySQL. I am pretty good with ASP, but can't locate anything on how use it with MySQL, I found some articles, but for the most part I've given up.

    Would PHP just be a better choice then ASP.NET?? (if I could learn it)

    How hard is it for a newbie, with only Visual Basic, experence to learn PHP?

    Thanks, again. For you help.

  2. #2
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    ..not going to get into the which is better/faster debate as that tends to get messy on this board , suffice to say that either will allow a decent connection to MySQL , PHP is well known of course for its native connectivity to many major datasources especially MySQL.

    How hard is it for a newbie, with only Visual Basic, experence to learn PHP
    thats the crux of the matter ... most people with any scripting/programming experience would find PHP very easy to pick up , the sytnax will be different than you are used to but there is a great manual with lots of examples to help get you started.

    Database connection to MySQL and returning data would probably be classed as 'begginner level' in PHP, hey give it a shot , it wont cost a penny to find out .. download the manual!

  3. #3
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepages
    ..not going to get into the which is better/faster debate as that tends to get messy on this board
    I like messy

    Quote Originally Posted by firepages
    thats the crux of the matter ... most people with any scripting/programming experience would find PHP very easy to pick up , the sytnax will be different than you are used to but there is a great manual with lots of examples to help get you started.

    Database connection to MySQL and returning data would probably be classed as 'begginner level' in PHP, hey give it a shot , it wont cost a penny to find out .. download the manual!
    I am viewing the manual online now. I tried to download it but got a bz2 file that my computer dosen't understand. I have been trying to WEEKS to get a asp.net connection to my MySQL database, and have yet to find a good provider. I found a few that I can't get to work.. there's just a lot of junk that didn't help much. Maybe I'll have better luck with PHP

    I still like using the visual studio.net environment. Can I still design my pages in vb.net environment, but just not use asp, and place all the php in the HTML tab? Or is there some other program that's used to design the PHP scripts? I still need to add tables, buttons etc.. not sure if this would be done in vb.net or what..

    I'll go read that manual maybe it will help.

    THANKS!

  4. #4
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Please, lets clearly separate ASP and ASP.NET, since they are entirely different things. For simplicity, lets call ASP ASP.old.

    Now, even assuming prior ASP.old experience, it's probably still easier to learn PHP than ASP.NET, since it's significantly more complex than both PHP and ASP.old.

    Now, since you are used to the VB syntax, learning any C-style language, such as PHP is going to be a bit annoying, but not really hard. PHP works pretty much exactly like ASP.old. (ASP.NET, on the other hand, is entirely different from both of them)

    PHP has excellent functions to interface with mySQL - it's the "default" DB environment for PHP, kind of like the default environment for ASP is MSSQL - you can use other databases just fine in both cases, but things will generally just work smoother when you use the default.

    Speaking of which, why on earth do you need to use mySQL anyway? MSSQL is definetly a much better database which will work much better with both ASP.old and ASP.NET.
    Mattias Johansson
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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy redemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XX7509

    I am viewing the manual online now. I tried to download it but got a bz2 file that my computer dosen't understand. I have been trying to WEEKS to get a asp.net connection to my MySQL database, and have yet to find a good provider. I found a few that I can't get to work.. there's just a lot of junk that didn't help much. Maybe I'll have better luck with PHP [img]images/smilies/nod.gif[/img]

    I still like using the visual studio.net environment. Can I still design my pages in vb.net environment, but just not use asp, and place all the php in the HTML tab? Or is there some other program that's used to design the PHP scripts? I still need to add tables, buttons etc.. not sure if this would be done in vb.net or what..
    You can get the Windows HTML help manual (.chm). Personally, I would rather get the HTML one - you can open .bz2 files using Powerarchiver (www.powerarchiver.com) and many other archiving utilities (you should get one of these, because bz2 compressed files are quite commonly found and it also happens to be one of the best compression schemes around)

    I'm not sure how VS.NET will respond to PHP code so I can't help you with that. But I do know that Dreamweaver MX allows you to have a WYSIWYG editing and still use PHP code. Personally, I just use a text editor.

  6. #6
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    As far as better connections go, I think that PHP offers it. PHP's connection to MySQL is native (unlike ASP.old or ASP .NET), so this offers some added speed and easier data editing (imo).

  7. #7
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Johansson
    Speaking of which, why on earth do you need to use mySQL anyway? MSSQL is definetly a much better database which will work much better with both ASP.old and ASP.NET.
    1. I've never used any database besides Access. MySQL offers me a FREE chance to learn an advanced database.

    2. I don't have near $20,000 to pay for some MS license, and I know my customers wont want to pick up the tab.

    3. I don't like MS software anyway, mostley because I don't trust it. There are way to many "MS Haters" out there. Like the SQL Slammer for example. I could be completely wrong, and please tell me if I am, but I've never heard of anyone doing a MySQL Slammer, so I just feal much safer using a MySQL database.

    If I knew more about MSSQL I might use it. I tried to get information on it before, and no one either didn't feal like answering my questions or didn't know the answers. I called MS directly to their sales department and the lady I spoke to didn't even know what MSSQL was.... Nice sales department.

    Right now I'm just building a message board script. I think this message board is one of the best, if not THE best I have ever seen. It uses a MySQL and PHP combo as far as I know.

    I would like to get MSSQL and learn more about it, but I think it's a really expensive step, and an unneeded step for a message board script. My databases on my websites are nothing more then feedback forms, and maybe a small shopping cart program. So I can't justify spending thousands of dollars on it right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by redemption
    You can get the Windows HTML help manual (.chm). Personally, I would rather get the HTML one - you can open .bz2 files using Powerarchiver (www.powerarchiver.com) and many other archiving utilities (you should get one of these, because bz2 compressed files are quite commonly found and it also happens to be one of the best compression schemes around)
    I went to that website, and downloaded it. I was about to buy a WinZip license next week, I'm sure glad I didn't. I think I'm really going to like this new program.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmann
    As far as better connections go, I think that PHP offers it. PHP's connection to MySQL is native (unlike ASP.old or ASP .NET), so this offers some added speed and easier data editing (imo).
    Cool. I know a little bit about C++ but not much, I always wanted to learn a C type of lanuage/syantax, but I didn't catch onto C++ all that well. I mean I can make a simple dialog based application in C++, but nothing fancy, I've found it's always faster (at least for me) to quickley code the same this in VB.

    I was thinking about getting that book that is sold here on SitePoint, on the books tab, called "Building a database driven website using PHP and MySQL... does anyone recommend this book, or has anyone here used it?

    From what I've heard that book uses Apache, and not IIS to it's examples, I tried to get Apache setup once before but I had a problem with it. Currently I have MySQL Admin and IIS running on my system. Maybe Apache can't work with them....

    Thanks! For the replies!

  8. #8
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmann
    1. I've never used any database besides Access. MySQL offers me a FREE chance to learn an advanced database.
    mySQL is NOT an advanced database. Even Access has a better feature set.

    I don't have near $20,000 to pay for some MS license, and I know my customers wont want to pick up the tab.
    I don't think anybody expects you to - that is the cost of the hosts your are using. For development, you can download MSDE, which is a free version of MSSQL Server, but can be used for development only.

    I don't like MS software anyway, mostley because I don't trust it. There are way to many "MS Haters" out there. Like the SQL Slammer for example. I could be completely wrong, and please tell me if I am, but I've never heard of anyone doing a MySQL Slammer, so I just feal much safer using a MySQL database.
    First of all, the bug the slammer made use of was patched by microsoft 6 months prior to the attack. Also, a SQL server of any kind should not be availiable to connect to via external means - it should be behind a firewall. An infected SQL server during the slammer attack was due to really crappy database administrators. Keep in mind that every software has bugs and exploits, and that Microsoft tend to look much worse than they are due to the media coverage. Not many knows that a worm which mirrored Code Red infected several thousand Linux/Apache servers, for instance. Never mind that anyhow - an SQL server should not be outside the firewall anyhow - security is your primary concern for the Web Server, not the SQL server.

    If you plan to use vBulletin for your board, the choice is easy - you have to use mySQL/PHP (unless vBulletin has support for other DB:s in it's new release).
    Mattias Johansson
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  9. #9
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Johansson
    I don't think anybody expects you to - that is the cost of the hosts your are using. For development, you can download MSDE, which is a free version of MSSQL Server, but can be used for development only.
    hmm.. somthing to think about... I had MSDE once before, but I couldn't get it working... I tried to access with MSAccess...

    So.. what is this $500.00 package that MS has for MSSQL. I was told it's a development interface like, Access, or MySQL Front? I could do everything like, make tables, create fields, set field data types, sizes, etc... It did everything but make forms, and reports (which I never used in access anyway).

    If I spend $500.00 on the GUI?, is it called. Then I could use MSDE to test my databaes on my home computer, then upload them to a web server which supports MSSQL? I did see a lot of servers which say Free MSSQL or MySQL support included, upon request. etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by M. Johansson
    If you plan to use vBulletin for your board, the choice is easy - you have to use mySQL/PHP (unless vBulletin has support for other DB:s in it's new release).
    I plan to build my own froum script which will be similar to vBilletin, but I'm building it from the ground up. It will also have some features of other popular board like UUB.Threads and Snitz..

    I already have over three pages of features that I want to add to it, and about 1 page of new features that have never been done before. I think that at least some of these may become very popular. I've got some graphic people I know working on the graphic design part, I'm taking care of most of the programming, and we're all working on the basic layout of tables, data grids etc... If people like some of the features available for vBulletin they'll love some of the new ones were comming out with... Although my research people have noticed that vBulletin will be our biggest competor, based on feature to feature, and overall speed and power.. UUB.Threads is nice, but way to slow. Plus a huge advantage we'll have over vbulletin will be the fact that you'd only need to purchase one license, and may use the board on as many sites as you want, as long as there, all developed by the same person/company. vbulletin has too many rules etc.. You must pay setup fees, then you must pay over a $100.00 for each site and each server you plan to install the board on.. blah blah blah...

    I would be very geatefull for any additional information you can give me about MSSQL and MSDE so I can understand them better.

  10. #10
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XX7509
    hmm.. somthing to think about... I had MSDE once before, but I couldn't get it working... I tried to access with MSAccess...

    So.. what is this $500.00 package that MS has for MSSQL. I was told it's a development interface like, Access, or MySQL Front? I could do everything like, make tables, create fields, set field data types, sizes, etc... It did everything but make forms, and reports (which I never used in access anyway).
    You do not have to spend anything on a GUI. Just get the evaluation version of MSSQL 2000 - it includes the GUI administration tools. It's kind of like mySQLfront, but significantly more advanced, as MSSQL is in itself more advanced than MySQL. The GUI admin tools can interface with MSDE, and does not expire.
    Mattias Johansson
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  11. #11
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Johansson
    You do not have to spend anything on a GUI. Just get the evaluation version of MSSQL 2000 - it includes the GUI administration tools. It's kind of like mySQLfront, but significantly more advanced, as MSSQL is in itself more advanced than MySQL. The GUI admin tools can interface with MSDE, and does not expire.
    I went to the MS website located here

    http://shop.microsoft.com/Referral/P...p?siteID=10145

    but I can't locate any free eval version anyware. Plus is it leagal to develop software on a free trial version and then sell it? I'm not sure what "rules" MS has about that. Could you show me where I'd need to look for a free version?

    I found this version again though!

    Full Version Media: CD $499.00
    Microsoft® SQL Server 2000 Developer Edition
    English North America CD
    Sku # E32-00001


    What is this version... is this the tools like MySQL Front, and Access? This would be all I need to build a database etc.. and then I could program it in .net and give it to someone with a MS license?

    If I can locate a cheap/free way for both me and my customers and have the web host or ISP pay the license fees then I may go with MSSQL instead of the PHP combo.
    Last edited by XX7509; Apr 4, 2003 at 12:28.

  12. #12
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XX7509
    Plus is it leagal to develop software on a free trial version and then sell it?
    Yes.

    Could you show me where I'd need to look for a free version?
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/trial/

    What is this version... is this the tools like MySQL Front, and Access? This would be all I need to build a database etc.. and then I could program it in .net and give it to someone with a MS license?
    The tools are like mySQL front. You can also use MS Access to interface to a MSDE/MSSQL database, if you need reporting and all that stuff. And yes, you basically just code it and sell it.

    [b]If I can locate a cheap/free way for both me and my customers and have the web host or ISP pay the license fees then I may go with MSSQL instead of the PHP combo.
    http://www.tokios.com
    or
    http://www.adehost.com
    Mattias Johansson
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  13. #13
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    So if I understand correctly the trial version is a sample of the $499. version..

    Thanks! You've been a great help!


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