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  1. #51
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digiscapers View Post
    Front page is great for learning but will it support html5/css3?
    Given that it was left for dead back in 2003, I'm guessing not. It's basically synonomous with bad web design nowadays anyway, so make sure to wear sanitary gloves if you are going to touch it.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Member Apokalupsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmatty2000 View Post
    Hi
    But don't you find it annoying that you have to keep going to the browser and clicking Refresh everytime you change one litte bit of code?
    Absolutely!!

    There are a number of options. Here are a couple:

    1) Chrome + Chrome Plugin LiveReload + {any editor, but I use SublimeText 2.


    2) IDE like Netbeans (I haven't used it yet, but it's been on my eye for a while now).

    Both are FREE solutions.


    Chrome + LiveReload is simple and quite effective. You simply have the browser open with the page you are editing, and every time you make a change to that file w/ your editor, it is saved automatically and it reloads automatically. There is no clicking "refresh" whatsoever. Save document in editor and you are done.

  3. #53
    SitePoint Member Apokalupsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmatty2000 View Post
    Hi
    I keep hearing bad things about Dreamweaver so I must reserve my opinion on that. Besides, I don't think I can afford it.


    Cheers
    Matt
    Are you a student? If so, there's a pretty big discount available.

    Also, have you looked into the Creative Cloud suite where you lease the products monthly in an affordable payment? I picked it up when it started last year and I pay $19.95 / month total, and I get every Adobe product.

  4. #54
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    Hi Apokalupsis
    I'm going to give css another go!!! lol. I'm not a student - even $19.99 would be hard to justify as I'm not a full-time web-developer or making any money from it yet.

    So back to it!! I'm trialling out Code Lobster at the moment. The Preview mode differs from IE and Firefox for even basic stuff sometimes which is a bit disappointing but seems like quite a good edittor so far.

    I'll give Chrome + LiveReload but thinking about it more - I think I need to test everything in at least two browsers simultaneously.

    Its good to see that this discussion is still going strong!!

    Kind Regards
    Matt

  5. #55
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    I've never found a problem with testing in browser. I always use chrome as a baseline. Never would I trust the likes of dreamweaver or some virtual browser except in cases where it might be unavoidable like testing for mobile devices quickly. I think the amount of time you will loose in fixing a site in a normal browser trumps any gain from using a something like dreamweaver live preview. I also run two monitors. Normally I have my IDE in one and the browser in another when I'm working things that require intensive, constant testing. Also something worth considering is that most real development shops won't probably dish out for paid products like Dreamweaver. So becoming use to working in live preview, specifically with Dreamweaver might end up becoming a real work flow problem in a realistic business setting. It is much better off to rely on free tools. Even in those cases some companies have their network locked down so much that it is like pulling nails to get any new software free or otherwise on your machine unless you can truly justify it instead of what the company offers on machines by default. One thing you can always bet is that there will always be a text editor or free, open source IDE available.
    The only code I hate more than my own is everyone else's.

  6. #56
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    Hi Oddz
    I'm glad you mentioned chrome because I installed Firebug Lite to help me along with CSS. I was disappointed though because Firebug Lite seems to add extra little bits of CSS that are custom to Chrome. When I used the full Firebug to look at CSS within Firefox I could see the full untainted CSS fine.

    One more big disappointment I found with Chrome was that if I am developing a website locally on my on PC, Firebug Lite cannot be used. A nice message appears to say that there is a known bug so you cannot view local websites at the moment and suggests a workaround of installing IIS (from memory). Interestingly IE has an add-on call F12 Developer where it lets you debug local websites on your own PC with no problems.

    Do you use Firebug or are you able to get around without it?

    Kind Regards
    Matt

  7. #57
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmatty2000 View Post
    One more big disappointment I found with Chrome was that if I am developing a website locally on my on PC, Firebug Lite cannot be used.
    Heck, Chrome has its own dev tools that are better than Firebug. Now that I use Chrome, I hate going back to Firefox and using Firebug (not to mention Firefox's own dev tools). It's far more clunky and lacks some of the nice Chrome dev features.

  8. #58
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    Hi Ralph
    I've just watched the first couple of video from http://discover-devtools.codeschool.com/ about DevTools for Chrome and it look extremely good. Like anything, it might take a bit of getting used to but it seems to include everything. Thanks for recommending this as I'll definitely start to use this.
    Kind Regards
    Matt

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmatty2000 View Post
    Hi Ralph
    I've just watched the first couple of video from http://discover-devtools.codeschool.com/ about DevTools for Chrome and it look extremely good. Like anything, it might take a bit of getting used to but it seems to include everything. Thanks for recommending this as I'll definitely start to use this.
    Kind Regards
    Matt
    It is so confusing trying to figure out what editor to use for web design. I thought I'd be able to make a quick decision on this. I purchased and used Dreamweaver Cs5 about 3 or 4 years ago when I started testing the waters to do web design. I didn't pursue it very long but now I want to build a website for my company with the possible goal of maybe switching careers if all goes well.

    I decided to look for another editor mainly because I figured DW would be out of date by now and I don't want to spend the money to get the latest version. Hearing some of the negative comments about DW don't seem to be what I remember though. I remember it being a pretty good program with a lot of capabilities to do whatever you need to build a website, front and back end. I also remember being able to view my coding pretty quickly on several browsers not just the preview thing. That being said I'll open CS5 again and see how good my memory is.

    However, I'm still very open to finding something new and that is not as expensive and maybe does the same things that I remember DW does.
    I looked at a couple of the videos from the link you put up, and so far it looks like you can edit a website but I can't see whether or how you can start a site from scratch. I'll look at the rest of the videos and do some more research on that.

    Have you had any luck finding a good editor?

  10. #60
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Hi BBERNZ. Welcome to the forums.

    It depends on how you want to go about building a site, but really, the editor is pretty irrelevant. It's like which hammer you use. I couldn't care less, as long as I can hammer the nail. Websites are essentially made from simple page files, like contact.html and styles.css etc. You can just create them from scratch in a code editor. You don't need any fancy tools.

    If you want a WYSIWYG editor (that doesn't require you to do coding) then Dw is a reasonable choice, or you may like to check out Macaw, the new whiz bang kid on the block: http://macaw.co/

    If you are happy to write your own code, check out SublimeText, and also check out Emmet as an add-on.

  11. #61
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    Hey Ralph, thanks for responding. I'd definitely like to write my own code. It seems to me the editor of choice for most people would be one that has
    auto-completion for HTML, CSS and javascript,
    a quick way to check your work on a browser,
    and a decent UI so that you can organize your project files.
    Other than that, having little experience, I'm just guessing. I like the way some of the browsers are set up so that you can quickly tab your HTML,CSS etc. and edit quickly. Google chrome lets you step through javascript and code it. I guess firefox and the others have that too?
    Do you have any advice on the most important tools and editor should have?
    Does Sublime Text have all those things?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Heck, Chrome has its own dev tools that are better than Firebug. Now that I use Chrome, I hate going back to Firefox and using Firebug (not to mention Firefox's own dev tools). It's far more clunky and lacks some of the nice Chrome dev features.
    Do you use chrome to build a site from scratch? Can Chrome be used in place of something like sublime text?

  12. #62
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBERNZ View Post
    Google chrome lets you step through javascript and code it. I guess firefox and the others have that too?
    Yes.

    auto-completion for HTML, CSS and javascript,
    a quick way to check your work on a browser,
    and a decent UI so that you can organize your project files.

    ... Does Sublime Text have all those things?
    Not necessarily, but there are lots of add-ons, like Emmet for amazing code completion and coding (You can code a whole document in a few strokes.)

    Do you have any advice on the most important tools and editor should have?
    I'm not very adventurous and like to keep things simple, so I'm not the right person to ask.

    Can Chrome be used in place of something like sublime text?
    Increasingly so, but not really at the moment. It's still nicer to have a code editor. There are some tools for auto refreshing the browser, but I don't have a problem just clicking the refresh button.

  13. #63
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    Thanks for the reply. Looks like I've got some research to do. Is Emmet an add on for Sublime Text?

  14. #64
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBERNZ View Post
    Is Emmet an add on for Sublime Text?
    Yes, although not specifically, as it works with other text editors, too. So far, I've found it works best in Sublime Text, though. It is really awesome. http://emmet.io/

  15. #65
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    Thanks again Ralph.


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