Ok i probably could go and reply to all the wonderful posts under the "Sneak Peak" topic but i think that would take forever. Valid arguments have been brought up from both sides and i am having Deja Vu about this whole topic (so much like the web site reviews forum). First I'd like to make some points.....
1. Threats towards SP, The Forums, The Admins etc are really like water on a ducks back. We hear them, consider them and most of the time they wash right off. This is being issued towards the "If you do that I'm outta here!" statements. I can't remember how many of you said the same thing about the web site reviews forum.
2. As Wayne said they are there so that you can view them and make suggestions for change etc. If i didn't care for your opinion or value your input i would have gotten Matt and Wayne's approval and they would have been posted AS IS. (yes i said AS IS, meaning that they would be in effect right now exactly how they are.) BUT since we due value your input and we love to torture ourselves (you have to admit this isn't my idea of a fun conversation thread) i posted the sneak peak. and yea i knew this would raise some feathers and trust me I've read a lot in the forums, in e-mail and of course my ICQ is just running rampant. But I'm listening..........
3. This is NOT a personal attack against any one person, and it is not an attack against the web hosting companies. This rule is to allow us more footing to stand on and give us more muscle when editing posts, deleting post or banning people. I can't even begin to count how many people will argue saying "it's not in the rules." or they say "you weren't clear enough" etc.... I hate that a lot, and if i had a dollar for each time it was said I'd be a millionaire, literally.
4. We are not banning ALL posts. In fact thanks to your suggestions, and comments we've come up with a revised edition of the rule..... and yes it's longer..
-------------start rule here ----------------
2. Web hosting & Domain Names Forum -
A. Web hosting companies are NOT allowed to open new topics in the Web Hosting & Domain Name forums regarding hosting services, pricing or other features.
I own XYZ hosting and was wondering what I should offer.
Hey all what do you think about the Domain Name superdude?
Where can I find a good domain registrar?
B. You ARE allowed to post replies if people ask questions but you must answer the question and not just provide a URL to a page on your site.
Q. I was wondering if it is normal for a hosting company to shut down your server without reason.
A. No, We don't do that at XYZ Hosting and you can read about it in our support site at www.xyz.com
A. Usually not, I recommend you read your hosts terms of service and contact them about resolving this issue.
C. You can post replies to requests for general information or for those that are looking for a web hosts but not in a way that promotes your own company.
Q. I need a host with 500 megabytes of disk space, 300 gigs of transfer and PHP, who do you recommend?
A. I can offer you that at XYZ hosting, is this an adult site because if it is we can only host you if you share all of your pictures with us on CD.
A. I can offer you that on XYZ hosting, talk to me about our free developer's plan.
A. There are many hosts out there that can offer that to you, I suggest you look at www.tophosts.com and do a search to find a company that fits your needs.
D. You may continue to promote your business in the ways allowed in these forums. This means a signature file and/or an e-mail link listed within your personal profile. You are also free to list any Instant Messenger ID's as the personal profile allows.
E. Customer Support shall not be carried out within the SitePoint Forums.
F. You will have to rely on the members of the forums to recommend you, you cannot personally search for customers among forum members. Any posts in violation will be deleted and you will be banned from posting.
----------end rule now------------
Ok let it fly........and if you have any comments about my comments please feel free to e-mail me or ICQ me.....
Eric Jones - SitePoint Administrator
Sounds fair...I'm quite happy with the changes...obviously I'd change a few things if I were the head-honcho (if only! http://www.SitePoint.com/forums/smile.gif)...but overall I'm glad you guys took in our input and revised the rules.
Chris Bowyer - Programmer in Training
MyCoding.com: Join our mailing list for launch notification!
"I'm not an insomniac, I'm a web designer."
Favor..... no it's not seen that way.
And in essence it is an honest gesture. How many other sites like SP or any other "business" do you see out there that actually takes the time to do what we have here in these forums.
Most business's set policy's and procedures and then the consumers have to adapt to them, accept them, or shop elsewhere. and it's usually a slow process to get anything changed or adapted.
We here at SitePoint have always looked to you the community for help, guidance, and control. Kind of like the government with it's check's and balances. We get an idea, toss it around between us, work out the details and the present it to you all to "yea" or "nea" about it.
We expect you to have strong criticisms about our ideas and that's why we present them to everyone. this way when we launch the finalized version we are sure that we can please most of the people most of the time.
The fact is that we do care about your opinions, we do care about the site, and we do care about the community. I spend so much time here it's sick. If this community dies then I lose a lot. I don't get paid to do this and I don't get any real benefits other then power (which can be addictive http://www.SitePoint.com/forums/smile.gif ) and a cool e-mail address. I do this because I love the community, the people, and the challenges that you all through out at us each and every day.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Look Eric, this is a wonderful forum, but one of the things that really bothers me is the fact that you guys try to look better than you are in reality and make it look like you're doing this as a favor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry we try to look better than we are in reality? This could be taken in a very offensive matter but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to the fact that I'm reading this wrong, or that I'm reading into it too deeply....
And just a note, we deal with only facts. I don't make anything fake, or puff it up. I speak from the heart and I'm deeply sorry that you feel that we are "fake" or that we "bend things out of shape here".
I thank everyone for tier opinion and I look forward to more in the near future.
Eric Jones - SitePoint Administrator
I agree with many of ThinkHost's statements. The forums certainly help us and give us answers, but they were created to benifit an already large company. I am glad that SitePoint has launched these forums - I can't tell you how much I have learned from them - but they wouldn't be here if there were no advertisers.
About the rules: I think they are very fair. I am glad that SitePoint asks the user to make the rules for ourselves, its a great idea. I also like how SitePoint listens to their users - not everyone does that.
Great job with the rules! http://www.SitePoint.com/forums/smile.gif
ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.
Yes, SitePoint is a business. Yes, SitePoint is trying to make money. But we are also trying to do it while listening to our audience (that's YOU) and then working out a comprimise that everyone can live with.
It's quite obvious that so far Eric Jones and Wayne Luke, who have graciously taken on the enormous role of managing this ever growing Community, have done a great job in walking the fine line between censorship and self-expression and promotion. A point that has to be also made here is that Eric Jones nor Wayne Luke receive monetary compensation for their work here, and they have no vested interest in generating revenue for SitePoint.
That being sent, I've given Eric the go-ahead to put in place the new rules and to enforce them as he sees fit. I believe that ultimately, the new rules will benefit the SitePoint Community.
Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder/Administrator
http://www.SitePoint.com - Resources to Build and Grow Your Site!
[This message has been edited by Matt Mickiewicz (edited July 07, 2000).]
Ok the new rules are posted. If you have any questions / compliments / complaints please issue them to a moderator or administrator.
Eric Jones - SitePoint Administrator
[My reply seems a little out of place now considering the last few posts between Eric Jones, Vladislav, and Matt]
The revised rule is a lot clearer and straightforward than the previous rule. Seems to be fair towards everyone. Looks good to me. http://www.SitePoint.com/forums/smile.gif
Web Design: DevStorm Internet Solutions
Web Hosting: InterSurge Internet (coming soon)
I appreciate the fact that Eric has taken the time to solicit the opinions of the community. If, by doing so, this also advances the business of Sitepoint, I find that to be fine.
I do not feel that kindness and thoughfulness are not mutually exclusive with running a successful business. Those who are truly "service oriented" are largely acting out of the desire to see that more and more people receive the common good. It is only natural that those who work in this frame of mind will be successfull.
I have been attracted to this community largely because of the giving nature I have sensed from the members and in particular from the Sitepoint Administrators and Moderators.
It makes me happy that individuals such as Wayne receive many job offers because of his posting here, and yet I do not sense that he posts here because of that fact. It is just a by product of someone attempting to help others out.
When Eric takes the time to gather our opinions, I feel that it benefits everyone (yes, Sitepoint as a business too). I am grateful that people continue to do what they do with a mindset of being able to help others.