Apple Bites Windows 7

Apple Windows 7Just when you thought all was quiet on the OS front, Apple breaks its silence to slam Windows 7 as being complex, expensive, and the cause of user headaches. Brian Croll, Vice President of OS X product marketing, explains:

Windows users are really tired of all the headaches that they’ve been getting over the years, starting all the way back from Windows Me to NT to Vista and now Windows 7. As a result, I think people are looking for something different, and the Mac offers real ease of use, stability and security.

Windows 7 is still just Windows. It doesn’t change a lot. It’s still complex, it’s still really expensive when you look at the cost of the upgrade, and there’s still security concerns. It turns out when you get Windows 7 it doesn’t even have some of the basic applications like mail or chat, or programs to manage your photos. You actually have to go and find them and download them.

For the consumer, there’s a lot of headache and annoyance built in to Windows 7. It’s built on a lot of antiquated technology that doesn’t change from release to release. We think that most people probably aren’t going to make that jump (from XP/Vista), and as a result, are going to be looking for new computers.

Let’s examine his statement in detail:

1. Windows users are tired of the headaches

Really? We’ve all had problems with Windows but does any OS offer a trouble-free experience? I think not, Mr Croll — and Macs are hardly exempt.

2. Windows 7 is still just Windows

That’s a relief — users would be very confused if it weren’t! The OS has evolved and it’s certainly more reliable and less confusing. Perhaps its evolution could have been quicker, but people like what they know.

3. There are no basic applications

Microsoft has dropped Windows Mail, MSN Messenger, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker and several other applications from Windows 7. Internet Explorer 8 can also be uninstalled (to an extent).

But isn’t that what the industry wanted? Everyone complained about Vista’s bloat and Microsoft was fined on several occasions for providing free software that destroyed competitors. It finally looks as though the company has listened, but they still can’t win!

You should also note that the applications are still available. They can be downloaded for free from http://download.live.com/ and they also appear as an optional “Live Essentials” entry in the Windows 7 Update panel. However, Windows users can choose alternative applications if they wish.

4. It’s built on a lot of antiquated technology that doesn’t change from release to release

Microsoft work hard to retain program compatibility between releases. They test and support thousands of applications, so it’s not surprising old code is retained. Windows compatibility may not be perfect, but how many other companies strive to support 15 year-old software?

Perhaps Mr Croll is unaware that OS X has been available since 2002 and is based on a 40 year-old operating system? I’m sure some of the original Unix source code can still be found lurking beneath the surface!

It’s slightly bizarre that Apple’s marketing departments regularly resort to Microsoft bashing. Their most devoted fans would never touch a non-Apple product. Even Microsoft users recognize that Apple make some glorious hardware and software. So why is Apple always on the attack? It’s rare for Microsoft to retaliate.

Has Apple become overly arrogant? Is Windows 7 a big concern for them?

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  • izuddin.helmi

    Apple doesn’t even offer Print Screen!

  • G

    Oh Apple, will you ever learn?

  • Marcello

    Have you ever worked intensively on a mac?

    Twitter: Marc3llo

  • TheStub

    This is really a non-story. Apple are hitting at Windows 7 to get the column inches, and OS X some exposure off the back off the big news release. Hell, even my beloved Linux community have been getting on the band wagon.

    OS is a personal choice, and one is really no better than another – just choose one that completes the tasks you require in the way best for you. If you like Mac, get OS X, if you like Windows, get 7 (it looks good). Me, I’m sticking with Linux – free and open all the way.

  • Springfield

    1. He didn’t say Macs were perfect. And you have to admit that Windows users have had many many more headaches than Mac users. Especially in an upgrade from XP to 7!
    2. So it still has the same problems as before.
    3. I had to go hunting for an application just to mount a disk image! Not good enough! Most people want the computer to just work, not to have to go and download and install a whole lot of basic programs.
    4. When you say OS X has been available sine 2002, you aren’t talking about the latest version, which at a push is only a couple of years old (if you count Leopard with Snow Leopard).
    The Windows community likes to bash the Mac world with a lot of old-fashioned out-of-date, or just incorrect information, so why shouldn’t Apple remind them of what they are stuck with.
    PS I love the latest ads “I’m a PC and Windows 7 was my idea…. after I saw my Mac friends using lots of these ideas over the last few years!”
    :-)

  • Andi

    “Has Apple become overly arrogant?”

    Ahahahahaahahaha. Become.

  • markmccorkell

    It’s nice that Microsoft are trying. :-)

  • MatzeLoCal

    4. It’s built on a lot of antiquated technology that doesn’t change from release to release

    Microsoft work hard to retain program compatibility between releases. They test and support thousands of applications, so it’s not surprising old code is retained. Windows compatibility may not be perfect, but how many other companies strive to support 15 year-old software?

    Perhaps Mr Croll is unaware that OS X has been available since 2002 and is based on a 40 year-old operating system? I’m sure some of the original Unix source code can still be found lurking beneath the surface!

    I think you didn’t get the point. Yes, Unix is “slightly” older than Windows, but that’s not the point. The point is, that Windows tries to be backward-compatible as much as possible and that’s what Apple avoids with OS X.
    Maybe the fact, that Snow Leopard is intel-only illustrates that in the best way. If Windows had a real history on other Plattforms (yes, there had been versions for PPC and MIPS, but they never sold well so they don’t count), they would be maintained forever. So if Win2k had been PPC-based, Microsoft would also offer Win7-PPC …
    Apple on the other side never cared much in drop support for technology they no longer believe in i.e. Cocoa-Java-Bridge or Carbon or PPC or Classic.

  • Oliver

    I like the expensive part… ha… Macs are so over priced it is ridiculous. I can build a PC at half the price with the same power that accomplishes the same goals with more customizable options. Also, if you don’t know how to fix your own Mac problems (hardware) have fun footing the nice bill for that as well.

  • pfitz

    Windows 7 is Microsoft playing catchup to OS X in terms of UI. It does very well imo in that regard, it is lovely to use. The search is now ‘nearly’ as good as spotlight, the dock is as good as Apple’s, the folder navigation path in explorer is as good (or better) than the one in finder. I do miss spaces/stacks/expose when I use Windows 7, but when I use my mac I miss the dock pop ups that Windows 7 has.

    However under the hood it’s still Windows, the disk format, problematic registry, old kernel, bad app installation process, susceptibility to viruses/spyware, defragmentation, UAC etc. I just hope the next release cracks down on performance the way Snow Leopard did for OS X, then we’ll have a real battle on our hands. For professionals Mac is still the platform of choice imo.

  • Zeno

    Craig, you really have no idea what they’re talking about … do you?
    I suggest you strive to document (research) before posting nonsense.

    1. OSX is not perfect but the holistic experience IS in fact better than Windows … I figured Apple didn’t earn the top ratings in customer satisfaction for nothing.

    2.”Perhaps Mr Croll is unaware that OS X has been available since 2002 and is based on a 40 year-old operating system? I’m sure some of the original Unix source code can still be found lurking beneath the surface!”

    OSX is based on FreeBSD which is not Unix (it’s like saying Linux is Unix).
    You might also be unavare that PPC code has been dropped from 10.6 and vast improvements have been made under the hood.

    3. Old code is not necessarly bad code … Apple was refering to the windows Registry and DLLs which are a major pain since they were first introduced in Windows 95.

    4. According to the Windows 7 adoption statistics released last week, Windows 7 has not halted OSX growth … in any way. So no … it’s not a big concern.

    Also MS is not the direct competition for Apple, as they are a HARDWARE company. The other PC makers are (Dell, HP, etc). I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. MS makes software, Apple makes hardware … how are they in competition (except the Zune)?

  • Oliver

    Yes, Mac is based on a 40 year old operating system, but that’s an operating system that actually works properly. Doesn’t the fact that it hasn’t changed mean it must work right?

  • nachenko

    Apple executives are behaving more and more just like any other ruthless mega-corp, while Microsoft is working hard to bring some fine products: The XBox 360 and Excel are two examples of things done right. If Microsft keeps trying to do things right, sure they’re going to bring Apple some bad news.

  • Rocky

    This kinda’ surprises me. Apple usually touts their perceived advantages in a way that doesn’t sound whiny and smug. Brian Croll’s comments sound almost like he’s running for office. And this guy’s the VP of marketing? He needs to shut up and let the marketing people who work for him do the talking.

  • FiZ

    I’m already growing quite weary of the “#{OS} is OBVIOUSLY the better choice for (professionals||developers||anyone with a brain||more marketing slander).” kind of statements. I have both a MacBook and a Windows 7 desktop PC and both are very good at what I use them for. I tend to prefer OS X, but Windows 7 is a serious threat for Apple and it shows in how their recent marketing is still taking cheap shots at Microsoft for the foibles of the past. I’m not saying Windows 7 is free of problems, but its come a LONG way (whether they’re playing catch-up or not). In all honesty, half the reason I prefer OS X is because of a lot of great 3rd party software unavailable for other operating systems.

    My main point is this: Look at all the claims Apple is making against previous versions of Windows (as opposed to Windows 7 itself). The fact that they’re comparing Apples to Last Year’s Oranges is starting to make Apple look really obnoxious.

  • juaniquillo

    Apple thinks Windows 7 is expensive!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha!

  • Jasconius

    Craig you’re just arguing in circles.

    Also, “do apple” ???

    “does apple”, at least in America, corporations are referred to as singular entities, not as groups of people.

  • commandnotapple

    @nachenko

    I’m not trying to be rude, but what world are you living in? Just last night my friend and I were talking about how he was going to fix his Xbox360… AGAIN!! Do you know what the problem is? Microsoft was too cheap to invest in some decent thermal compounds. $10 could have saved a $300 system.

    I can’t comment on Excel, because I’m a NeoOffice user.

    For the record, Apple has always been arrogant. We know this, it’s not new. But they get their stuff right, and they truly understand their user base. As for the ‘overpriced’ debate, you have to look at value versus cost. Yes, Windows machines are cheaper, but I would pay three times what Apple is charging to keep my Mac. I value it that much.

    I still have yet to use a Microsoft product that I can at least say I’m happy with. (Oh wait, I do appreciate Microsoft Security Essentials, but that’s Microsoft’s claim to fame, anti-virus software? And this is out of HOW many products, both software and hardware, that they manufacture.)

  • http://www.boodelprod.com doug-o

    It’s nice to see how much passion the ‘Mac vs. PC’ debate brings. It’s a battle that has been on-going for decades and it’s more fun than ever. Both Apple and Microsoft have brought us good and bad products. They have both had their share of bad press and have come out stronger for it. They have both played a major role in all our lives from our education to work and back home. They have both driven the computer and consumer electronics industry ahead and given us something to complain, debate and be passionate about.

    So, Which OS is better? Who knows. Who cares? I hope the debate never ends. It’s just too much fun.

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    As for the “You actually have to go and find them and download them” statement, the consumer doesn’t actually have to “go and find them”, just download them.

    Links to Windows Live Essentials are built-in to Windows 7. They’re available in Windows Update, and through the Control Panel.

    In Windows Vista, you’d get to Windows Mail by typing, for example “mail” at the start menu.

    In Windows 7, if you type “mail”, the first thing that comes up is “Go online to download Windows Live Essentials”, which brings you right to the page to download Windows Live Mail. Same if you search the name of any of the other apps.

  • simshaun

    Reading some of these comments from both Mac and Win fanboys is interesting. I use both Snow Leopard and Win 7 professionally, and its a love/hate relationship with both OS’s.

    Brian Croll’s comments about Windows being “expensive” is a bit over-the-top, seeing as how it cost me nearly $1,500 after taxes for the new Mac.

    Come on folks, really, both OSs are far from what I would consider perfect.

  • http://www.jakeinmotion.net jake61341

    @izuddin.helmi “Apple doesn’t even offer Print Screen!”

    Really? Have you used OSX? You can print screen and it saves it as an image on the desktop. You don’t even need to open ‘MS Paint’ to paste it into anything!

  • turb

    Apple doesn’t have Print Screen … Print Screen suck alot. Way much easier to take a screenshot on OS X than on Windows IMHO

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    Microsoft can’t do anything about that.

    There is a “make print screen better on Windows” market of softward.

    If Microsoft improved its print screen function to add better screenshotting abilities, or to be more like OS X, it would be abusing its monopoly power in the OS market to harm competition in the “print screen software” market.

    That’s an antitrust violation.

  • Carlo

    I’m not a Microsoft fan, I use both XP Pro and Mandriva. I would like to install also Mac OsX, the problem is that you’ve to buy crap Apple hardware in order to run their OS. So I think they could speak about OS when they’ll release a real one.
    I want to buy the hardware that better suits my needs and not the one Apple thinks will be good for me. If they had the Microsoft market share they would be more evil then Redmond ones. At least Microsoft doesn’t pretend that I have to buy an expensive and low quality MS-PC to run Windows.

  • Lucas Arruda

    As you previously said, he is explaining, not attacking. It`s his opinion, not a fact or something that must be true. Maybe Apple should be more quiet, but I bet it`s fun to make fun of Microsoft and the Vista mess.

    I think you got your analysis pretty wrong.

    1. Any user will, someday, have a problem with his OS. But, Windows sometimes can be a pain. Is not fast, neither is very usable. It`s just more used because it`s licensed to OEMs. But, it pays a high price for that in terms of quality. It`s like a basic car that anyone can buy, and by that most people have it. Also, a lot of people have no choice and get it when it buys his PC (you can`t buy your PC without OS. Why would a Linux or other OS user want to pay for a OS it will never use?).

    2,4. Here he is saying about Windows basis. Windows have all those security problems. Virus, malwares, etc etc etc. It never gets really safe, even with a decent and expensive antivirus and firewall. The thing is, be lucky to never enter a website with an IE exploit and always run you antivirus from time to time. Also, is good to reinstall your OS, because it turns into a White Elephant with the time. And, we still got the fact that Windows is still using registry on the background, with is a mess and really old technology. They have to rebuild the whole OS and not just the Kernel.

    3. What he means is make the OS usable. It doesn`t have to be empty to be fast. Mac and Linux come with almost all apps average user will need. So you need to install almost nothing to browse, watch a movie, chat, etc etc etc. Windows doesn`t even come with a office package or a PDF viewer. I needed more than 4 hours to get a Windows Vista installed and running with all basic apps and drivers in my mom`s PC. I install a Linux in my PC and I`m ready to go before the Windows is even installed. That absolutely ridiculous.

  • TheBuzzSaw

    I know Grammar Nazis are obnoxious, but honestly… this has gone on for multiple articles here at Sitepoint. Microsoft is a singular entity. It really breaks the flow trying to read “Microsoft are…” “Microsoft were…” It does not matter that Microsoft is a group of many people. As far as English grammar is concerned, Microsoft is a company. If you want to switch to plural, you can refer to Microsoft fans or Microsoft employees or something. Just please stop referring to Microsoft (or Apple for that matter) as a plural entity.

  • http://www.sagewing.com Sagewing

    Well, I thought the article was refreshing – at least it was level/sober about how ridiculous the Apple vs PC thing has become. I expect the evangelism to never end, but this bickering between the companies is annoying and isn’t good for the consumer.

    There is plenty to criticize in both OS’s, but it’s nice to actually look at the criticism in detail and discuss it rather than just jumping into the same old debate. I’ve had Apples and PC’s for 25 years (literally) and they have both evolved well. I like them both for different reasons. We also have iPhones and Blackberries in this house :)

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    @Lucas, on your point 3, this is again because it would be illegal for Microsoft to give you those essential programs. All of them are competitive markets, and Microsoft is a monopoly. If you believe monopolies should be able to bundle products, you should ask your congressmen to relax the antitrust regulations.

  • centered effect

    A new [os/cms/framework/whatever] and another article about them. Then the fan comments defending one or the other getting really heated up about it.

    I use all three major system systems – Windows, Mac, and Linux (Ubuntu). Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Not one of them is perfect. Which do I prefer? Mac. Actually I would love a combination of both Mac and Debian but that’s a different story.

    After the years I get sick of running anti-virus, spyware-scanning, or defragging, at this point, then there is no point in upgrading from XP. I waited 2 hours for Vista to update itself on my laptop without letting me do anything else – unacceptable in my eyes nowadays when things run quickly and hardly ever require a reboot – especially long and strenuous reboots (to everyone noting Macs are expensive, when your time is money, then you would be better off getting a Mac instead of dealing with Windows headaches).

    (and to the game-only-on-windows statement) I still play my games on Linux and on Mac. If I want to play other games, I just go my gaming console and not my computer.

  • carstep

    @TheBuzzSaw

    I expect from somebody who is doing Apple and PC’s for 25 years to know that an Apple is a PC as well. Try to differentiate in an other way between the two please! Even the first (based on advertising) so called PC was an Apple (in reality the first PC was an IBM).

    IMHO both OS’s have huge number of annoying things especially when specific tasks come into play. There is lot to improve in both

    r. Sandor

  • Guy Dufour

    I prefer Windows 7 100x over MacOS any version and I use both

  • simshaun

    @centered-effect,

    If Mac or Linux were to obtain the number of users that Windows has, what do you think hackers/griefers would start focusing on.

    The fact that you have to worry about spyware and viruses on Windows says nothing about the operating system. Are there security holes in Windows? Yes. But the same can (and would) be said about every other major operating system if they were the new target.

    to everyone noting Macs are expensive, when your time is money, then you would be better off getting a Mac instead of dealing with Windows headachesI’m not sure what services you are running, but my PC’s with Windows XP and Windows 7 both boot up nearly as fast as my Mac to the point where the difference is trivial. Also, a clean install of both XP and Windows 7 took me roughly 40 minutes each. It is a bit more time than a clean Ubuntu install, but not enough to warrant whining about.

    Also, hinting that people should just play console games if it doesnt work on their computer is absurd. Many people prefer computer games over console games, myself included. If the game only works on Windows, then what do you think I’m going to play it on?

  • http://jedicharles.com JediCharles

    Wow guys, this is reminding me of town hall meetings. I’ve been a Windows user since Windows 3.1 and the Mac vs. PC cold war seems not to have changed much since then. I think Microsoft is overall trying to bring people what they want but pleasing everyone isn’t possible. I keep hearing people say Vista was broken and I admit I had a few issues due to drivers but since the drivers have been updated and the system has been very stable.
    I believe Apple got it right in the initial deployment of OS X by deciding not to support any prior software and to start fresh. Their computers in that transitional stage came with a dual boot setup of OS9 and the new OS X. Developers were forced to create new versions of their software made specifically for OS X. I believe it would have been advantageous for Microsoft to have done the same with Vista by dropping the native compatibility to all previous software and to run that software in a virtual environment so it wouldn’t interfere with the new software. Windows 7 has something like that for Business and Ultimate editions but taking it a step farther might have been much better. In my opinion, all 32-bit code should have been abandoned and replaced by entirely new 64-bit code.
    As for security, I agree with simshaun. The reason hackers focus on Windows it because of the user base. I believe they would wreak havoc on Mac OS X and the Linux Flavor-of-the-Month if the majority of users used those OSes.
    I think Mac’s are great, I just happen to prefer PC’s because that’s what I am comfortable with. It’s a personal choice, use what you prefer.

  • centered effect

    @ simshaun:

    If Mac or Linux were to obtain the number of users that Windows has, what do you think hackers/griefers would start focusing on.

    The fact that you have to worry about spyware and viruses on Windows says nothing about the operating system. Are there security holes in Windows? Yes. But the same can (and would) be said about every other major operating system if they were the new target.

    I am sure hackers would still go after the system with the least resistance: Windows. Linux/Unix, BSD (Apple) are built in a way if an attacker gets to the system and messes up the user, the rest of the system is not compromised. Up until Vista was something like this applied.

    in Windows versions prior to the introduction of UAC, malicious programs would have full control over the system.


    There are still a good majority of users using XP. In addition, most of the threats come from the browser. With XP, that is IE 6/7.

    I’m not sure what services you are running, but my PC’s with Windows XP and Windows 7 both boot up nearly as fast as my Mac to the point where the difference is trivial. Also, a clean install of both XP and Windows 7 took me roughly 40 minutes each. It is a bit more time than a clean Ubuntu install, but not enough to warrant whining about.

    Not sure what point did I mention installing a system or booting/rebooting under normal conditions. Installing is always a point people love to gripe about with Linux, so tell me this how many times do normal people install an OS? Then tell me how many people reinstall already imaged systems like an HP/Compaq, where you install the OS, then the software. This takes well more than 40 minutes. Then Vista “prepares the desktop”? No thanks. Installing Ubuntu took 15 min. restart and I was online.

    Also, hinting that people should just play console games if it doesnt work on their computer is absurd.

    Something I never said either. I love my PC games but at the end of the day, I use what works for the task – a game console. It also has thousands of more selections than PC’s do and less of a hassle upgrading my system to run such a game. I also save some money instead of buying the flavor of the month nVidia/ATI card to get that extra 10 FPS in [pick-your-fav-latest-game]. Again, I still miss my Quake 2/3 UT, UT 2k3/2k4 games and I play them when I get the need for them.

  • volomike

    Windows 7 will not support all the features of Quickbooks 2007. Try to run Payroll and it will fail to find an Internet connection. I also installed the latest stable Firefox on Windows 7 and it couldn’t find an Internet connection either. But then I ran IE8 and it worked okay.

    So that’s a thumbs down from me for Windows 7.

    I’m telling everyone — go get a Mac. You’ll have driver support for your hardware, it’s easier to use, and Apple really is correct that upgrades are cheaper. For instance, update OSX and most likely your old software will still work for quite awhile. You won’t have, for instance, a 3 year old program stop working.

  • Ali Baba

    “Windows users are really tired of all the headaches …” I have no problem with mine.

    “Windows 7 is still just Windows. It doesn’t change a lot…” OSX is still OSX.

    “For the consumer, there’s a lot of headache and annoyance built in to Windows 7….” I don’t see any infact you not obligated use programs just uninstall it. Infact you have more options that for software than Mac. If I don’t want use Photo Gallery I can use Picasa or something else. Don’t want use Windows Media Player use VLC instead.

    Apple make good products but they getting arrogant for no reason. OSX can have viruses and it can be hacked if everybody start using it. This is just reality.

    No one is fool proof

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    @volomike Plenty of Mac software breaks when Apple upgrades too.

    http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/

  • http://www.besalighting.com The Schaef

    I’m most baffled that people are taking time out of the OS discussion to bag on the grammar of Sitepoint et al.

    A company is a singular entity when referring to aspects of the company itself. The actions taken by members of the company, the employees, the software engineers, the board of directors, that is a collective of persons, and descriptions of those actions are correctly identified with plural forms like are and were. Microsoft is a Fortune 500 company. Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to render HTML email with the Word engine in Outlook 2010.

    The attacks on Microsoft may be hyperbolic and at least partially unwarranted, but there’s a kernel of truth whereupon Apple are seizing. Microsoft software is powerful but the UI has often left something to be desired, and there is a strange habit of clinging to some of the most obtuse elements: IE6, the Word rendering engine, program registry, etc. Apple are using those old complaints to dissuade people from trying a new product and whatever one may think of their methods, they’re effective.

  • willthiswork

    to everyone noting Macs are expensive, when your time is money, then you would be better off getting a Mac instead of dealing with Windows headaches

    Imagine you spend most of your time developing in the .net framework. What would a mac be good for? Unluckily dealing with windows headaches is still a decently paid job.

    Yes, Mac is based on a 40 year old operating system, but that’s an operating system that actually works properly. Doesn’t the fact that it hasn’t changed mean it must work right?

    That makes me think Os9 was total crap (in fact it was) but even back in those times mac-nuts were yelling around how magnificient their os was.

    @volomike Plenty of Mac software breaks when Apple upgrades too.

    and they say it is a good thing, actually that is why big companies don’t rely on macs.

    I’m already growing quite weary of the “#{OS} is OBVIOUSLY the better choice for (professionals||developers||anyone

    Yep, that’s particulary annoying given the fact that most mac-nuts I know are graphical designers with no previous experience on unix-like os and very little knowledge of mac itself.

    All in all an os is as good as his owner and his need, all the rest is just boring marketing fluff.

  • Kevin

    Apple executives are behaving more and more just like any other ruthless mega-corp, while Microsoft is working hard to bring some fine products: The XBox 360 and Excel are two examples of things done right. If Microsft keeps trying to do things right, sure they’re going to bring Apple some bad news.

    nachenko

    You do realize that the 360 has a failure rate over 50%, right? (source: http://consumerist.com/5338852/xbox-360-failure-rate-is-542-percent-game-informer-finds)

  • morrty

    @volomike

    Have you ever considered that maybe your connection issues are your fault?

    I have the latest stable Firefox too with no problems. In fact, none of my programs have problems finding an internet connection. You sound a bit ignorant.

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    @Kevin The majority of those surveyed that had a failure were from the earlier generations of Xbox 360, which did have a more than 50% failure rate. Microsoft put away $1 billion (BILLION) for the cost of repairing those for free. The last 1-2 years of models do not have those problems.

    The end of the article you quotes the key fact: despite 52% of respondents having their hardware fail, only 3% would not buy another Xbox because of it. That’s loyalty you only get from a great product.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry but i dont agree on the “financial” part after all to use mac os you have to have a mac which is way more expensive than PC so if you put it toghether mac is the more expensive i would say.

  • rlavigne99

    Apple is awesome, nuff said.

  • centered effect

    @ willthiswork

    Imagine you spend most of your time developing in the .net framework. What would a mac be good for?

    You can run Mono on a Mac and Linux.

    Also Macs (the machine, not the OS) can run all 3 major OS’s. (Speculating here:) All the talk about visualization, to me, pointless if you can’t run another OS. You can’t do that on a $400 HP – not legally.

    Unluckily dealing with windows headaches is still a decently paid job.

    So is a car repair shop. And I am still perplexed as to why car makers can’t make: springs that don’t break, tires that don’t go bad, make engine run on water or another reusable resource. But I digress, we are talking about Windows.

    Oh yea, Linux DE’s are not immune to viruses as well:
    How to write a Linux virus in 5 easy steps – For Gnome and KDE users. XFCE/Thunar is not vunerable to this… Note, I mention the Desktop Environment (DE) and not the Linux Kernel itself..

  • pfitz

    Dan have you used a Macbook pro? Apple doesn’t have to twist my arm to make me use hardware of that quality. In my experience the hardware I have bought has not only been aesthetically beautiful but has run very well. I’ve used this macbook pro for 3 years now and never had to reinstall the OS, it’s remained fast and worked flawlessly, time machine backs up my data without any work on my behalf.

    The price tag on Apple products gives you the whole experience, quality hardware, very high quality OS, iLife, never worrying about drivers again, not putting up with windows problems again. I use my Mac for work and the extra productivity is worth the price tag, hell it pays for the extra cost within a couple of weeks. That being said Windows 7 is a huge hit back from Microsoft, it’s lovely to use and it does some things BETTER (dock popups) than OS X so the battle is on!!

    However it is funny seeing the Windows guys discovering the nice little things in Windows 7 and telling Mac guys about them. Most of those ideas have come from OS X, MS is playing catchup (but doing it well with Windows 7).

  • Destro

    Are people really saying that the Mac OS is more expensive than Windows? In what alternate reality? Leopard cost $130, and Snow Leopard cost a whopping $30. And that is for a fully function, non-crippled OS. The version with equivalent feature set for Windows 7 is Ultimate which retails for $220. And it lacks some of the functionality you get in the Mac OS.

    I’d much rather pay a little bit more for the hardware up front (which is a bit of a fallacy anyway) and get a relatively trouble-free experience for the duration than to get cheap hardware, and then spend more money patching it up with virus scanners and defrag tools and registry repair tools and other various maintenance utilities. Not to mention, paying $200+ for the pleasure of getting an OS upgrade that I am nearly guaranteed to have to fiddle with for the duration. I am comfortable digging into the guts of my OS if I have to, but the truth is that I SHOULDN’T HAVE TO. I don’t have the time to waste on scanning for trojans and viruses, cleaning up the registry, and reinstalling to recover from a borked system. In the end, the Mac experience costs me less and is much more stable.

  • direkfilmizle

    thanks alot for information

  • davidp

    The core of OS X is rock-solid, time-tested code: FreeBSD. The core of Windows is flaky shite. The result: Microsoft is continually having to focus on not having their system collapse under the weight of cruft and hacks; Apple gets to focus on creating superior user experiences.

    On the other hand, Apple regularly screws-over old hardware owners by dropping support for ancient OSes. Microsoft maintains high compatibility for eons. Then again, this gives Apple the advantage of getting away from cruft, while Microsoft ends up struggling with it.

    In the end, though, the only important metric is productivity. And that’s something you can only judge for yourself after having used both systems extensively.

  • games

    I guess I’ll buy me a Mac so I can do some nice, head ache free gaming. Ooops, forgot, Mac doesn’t do games. . . Ouch. . .

  • http://www.dangrossman.info Dan Grossman

    @pfitz Plenty of non-Mac computer users can say exactly the same about their computers.

    We love our hardware (and get to choose it), have never had to reinstall the OS (we’re not grandma and know how to take care of our computer, like the average Mac user), our computers work flawlessly after years, and our computers even back themselves up (and mine backs up databases off my servers each night too.. whoopdie doo).

    I feel the same way about Windows and productivity as you do about your Mac. I can’t tell you how much more productive I became when I got Vista’s live search 5 years ago… hard to imagine anyone still using the old XP-style start menu to launch programs and open documents!

    In general, the praise you’ve lavished upon your Mac is more about being a knowledgeable user than about the operating system you chose.

  • http://www.sitepoint.com AlexW

    @The Schaef

    Apple are using those old complaints to dissuade people from trying a new product and whatever one may think of their methods, they’re effective.

    I’m not sure those methods *are* as effective anymore. Fanboys are fanboys, whether they’re Apple, Trekkies or World of Warcraft, so you’re preaching to the choir there. They’ll clap and jeer at the right parts in the movie regardless.

    Outside of that group, I think there’s some recent evidence of, if not quite anti-Apple sentiment, certainly some questioning of their motivations. AppStore policies, the Google Voice rejection, Pre law suits..

    I don’t think they automatically get the white hats anymore.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s face the fats, the WORLD primarily run and lives depend upon PCs. The fact that Win OS is targeted by hackers is a clear indication of its proliferation and usage. It’s a necessary evil.

    Kudos to Apple for attacking its major competitor boldly and openly. This is called marketing!

    Shame on Microsoft for not crushing Apple by merely outspending them with not only a proactive campaign but a counter one. They could outspend Apple 4 to 1 and essentially swallow them with media presence.

    Microsoft’s greatest error is not that they’ve created an OS that’s imperfect but they’ve maintained a level of arrogance and “untouchableness” that has allowed Apple the ant to gain more market share.

    At the end of the day, both desktop OSs are nearing there end as Google draw closer to releasing their cloud OS. Competition is just around the corner!

  • http://www.olsenportfolio.com/ nrg_alpha

    @nachenko

    While you claim that the xbox 360 is done right, this wasn’t always the case (and still might not be). Does the $1 BILLION red-ring-of-death situation sound familiar? MS cut manufacuring / internal thermal design corners to save money (which they did initially… but I think those savings were wiped out in a hurry once the flood of defective consoles started flowing in). Aside from paying top dollar for a faulty console, I’m sure MS burned many bridges with gamers who flocked over to Sony’s PS3 (and will in all likelyhood avoid MS’ next upcoming next gen console). Hardly what I would call doing the xbox 360 right imo.

  • adimauro

    Of course Macs are stable, because they control the hardware! Microsoft has to worry about supporting an almost infinite combination of hardware. And, being the big fish, they are constantly under attack, having to operate in an almost endless security ‘war zone’. It’s VERY easy to always make them the scapegoat.

    If Apple became the dominant computer platform, think about what it would mean. All these hardware companies would be out of business. Their system is the most closed out of the ‘big 3′. With Windows and Linux (which are the two I have at home), I have the freedom to choose and build my own system. And, while I love Linux, it also has it’s own share of hardware issues from time to time.

    Bottom line: I got two good computers (one windows one linux) for less than the price of one Mac. Paying a huge premium for a closed system…and then pay hundreds more to Apple when something goes wrong…no thanks. Even Apple’s iPhone is so closed. Paying hundreds of dollars for the ‘privilege’ of downloading the iPhone SDK…no thank you, I’ll go to Android.

    I think Apple’s model is broken. And if they do open up, I’m sure OS X would also ‘crash’ under the pressure. Just do a search for ‘snow leopard problems’, and you’ll find several, even within their ‘controlled’ environment. They should worry about fixing their own problems before making jabs at others.

  • Anonymous

    FreeBSD is actually called FreeBSD Unix. FreeBSD is Unix. OSX is based off of FreeBSD Unix.
    Unix / Linux is a lot more stable than dos / windows. No comparison. Apple has managed to put forth an awesome OS based off of FreeBSD Unix as the core. They have poured their heart and soul into developing an unmatched X server that spanks KDE and GNOME. Their push into developing the GUI to run on top of FreeBSD Unix is what makes them standout. They have dedicated developers. This type of commitment cannot be met by Microsoft or the open source community. That’s why all the Linux OS’s lack in the gui experience. Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse just to name a few. They’re o.k., but no where near the OSX interface. The stability is there. But the gui needs further development. Apple then takes the OS they have polished and matched it to the best possible hardware. It’s the same hardware though that runs Linux and Windows. They just spend a lot more R&D on the hardware versus Dell or HP. Windows in general has come a long way. Win 95 to Vista. The interface has improved. Nobody can deny that. It just comes down to what people have become accustomed to and if they’re willing to change. By the way, a Mac is a (PC) Personal Computer. They need to change their ads to. “hi, I’m OSX”, ‘hi, I’m winblows”

  • Bull

    Apple is just scared !

  • hgw

    Well I’m working with XP on a PC and with OS X leopard on a mac mostly for web projects and some print. Keeps brain halfes communicating better :-) Everything you need is on a Mac and it mostly is well done. It keeps you away from too many software pieces for too many (and often system related) little tasks. For Mac, today there are not too much but really top software helpers out there for things you need in addition (know Skitch?). That said, there is one MAC disadvantage: Finder / File handling. Working with files from an ethernet link station is even faster on my old PC machine compared to my new MacPro. That said I’m working 95% of my time on the Mac.

  • whyulil

    bored

  • backtoPC

    I was a Mac user in the early 90’s. Got REALLY tired of the Mac crashing all the time. Switched to PC in 2000 and was really satisfied. Decided to switch back to Mac last year, I think, because of the hype that it was the computer for designers, and it just looked ‘cool’. Wow, how frustrating can a computer be!!! I CANNOT stand how often that damn balloon shows it’s ugly head!. How often I need to reboot. How UNRESPONSIVE this machine is… I type something and a second later the computer responds. I click the mouse, and a second later the computer responds!! ALL the same issues for the ’90’s!! I have 4GB of RAM so that is not the issue! My productivity has taken a nose dive! I’m going back to the PC, and can’t wait to use Windows 7. I’m a designer, and the PC is the better way to go. Don’t get caught up in all the “fancy” stuff. The bottom line is you want a computer where you can be productive!

  • willthiswork

    Apple is awesome, nuff said.

    When I read comments like that I can’t refrain from loud-farting

  • Leopard

    Now that the windows 7 is here (hot) it has started to melt away the snow from the leopard. Waiting for Psystar to become legal and see how the OSX would runs on various different hardware which Windows happens to be running. Than comparing OSX and Windows would be fair.

  • ThinkAdrian.com

    No Print Screen? Maybe not one key, but you can achieve more with two more:

    http://www.apple.com/pro/tips/secretcapture.html

    CMD-Shift-3 = Entire screen (one file for each display)
    CMD-Shift-4 = Selecet portion of any screen
    CMD-Shift-4, then spacebar = Click on a window, menu or dropdown to save just that part

  • Alex

    I’m a Mac user and don’t need/use neither the Mail nor the messanger Apps. My Mail Client is my browser and for instant communication I use Skype.

    But Windows is still lame: Why does it take >1h to install an Office Suite on Win7 while installing an Office Suite on a Mac will take you only 10min?

  • Buzz

    Common guys, as someone said earlier in these comments this is just a non story. It’s more about the two giants in a popularity debate.

    And whoever wrote this is just as bad by taking stabs himself. Go figure! No informative reading here.

  • llnek

    apple is the world’s most arrogant, self-centered and over hyped company. sure they make some good products but not perfect. everything about them is over hyped, and that includes their products and their ceo!

  • Bill G

    And what do you expect? Apple will do anything to make Windows look bad.

    Windows 7 is awesome and if more people would install clean and forget the upgrading then there would be less to report. 7 runs well and is just as good if not better then OSX

    But Windows is still lame: Why does it take >1h to install an Office Suite on Win7 while installing an Office Suite on a Mac will take you only 10min?

    Yes yes the lies keep coming, Office 2007 has never taken me more the 15 min to install and on more then 10 different PC’s LOL Yes yes the mac crowd has to make things up to make themselves feel better.

  • Henrik

    I have used windows machines since they first arrived. I have also used probably almost every major flavor of Unix since 1980. I switched to Mac and OS X two years ago, and I have never been as happy with both the hardware and the operating system as I am now.

    Sure Unix is 40 years old – it means that it is mature. Windows is not plagued because it is old, but because of short sighted early design decisions. Apple made similar mistakes, but corrected them by switching to Unix.

    After two years on the Mac, I cringe every time I have to use Windows or Microsoft applications – in their attempt to make things look better and be more user friendly they are just putting more and more lipstick on the same pig. I think they are doomed – squeezed between google and apple, Microsoft’s archaic backwards compatibility issues will eventually kill them.

  • Johan Cyprich

    A computer is only as good as the software it runs, and there are far fewer software choices on a Mac than there is for Windows.

  • joejac

    Oh God, I’m tired of this OS war!

    Please listen to my prayer,
    send me an easy to install and use OS,
    like PCLinuxOS, but with the magic of
    an interface that allows to install
    any windows/mac commercial program
    with no performance losses
    like in the virtual machines
    or complicated/faulty installations
    like in the emulators.

    God please do that miracle.
    Amen
    joejac :)

  • adimauro

    Oh God, I’m tired of this OS war!

    Amen!

    Use what makes you happy. Enough said.

  • http://jedicharles.com JediCharles

    Apple Plugs Holes… (Cnet News) in Mac OSX issuing version 10.6.2. This just shows any OS can have bugs and vulnerabilities. With the huge amount of code in an OS there’s no wonder these things come up. Both Apple and Microsoft quickly patch problems when they occur and that should be noted.

  • bdk

    I was forced by this weird economy to take a contract using all Microsoft products. I left my Ruby on Rails, Adobe, Mac world and was thrust into C#, VS2008, Expression Studio 3, and now Win 7 upgrade. You know what? Not as bad as I would have thought, I’m glad to be employed. However, I’d switch back to RoR/Adobe/Mac in a heartbeat!

  • Joe

    I can’t believe that people keep on going with these Mac vs Windows debates. Honestly guys, no one will change anyone’s mind by doing this and you only make yourselves sound more stupid for getting involved and your horrible grammar doesn’t help your cause either. I do realize I am “getting involved” and making a butt of myself but it’s only to get all of you to calm down.

    I, for one don’t like the way Apple is/are making low blows to Microsoft. It’s childish. You don’t win people over by insulting what they already use. You win them over by PROVING that your product is worth using over the competitions, and I personally have never found that to be the case with a Mac.

  • http://www.drumnbass.be/ thechronic

    I used to be a very happy Windows user, but having to use Vista that came preinstalled on a laptop was a nightmare. I’m an advanced computer user and I am not amused when an OS is getting in my way. So I tried Linux, first as a dual boot with Windows, then after a few months when I got more and more comfortable with Linux I finally erased the Windows partition which was getting less use every month that went by.
    I recently bought a new laptop, it came with Windows 7. Was very curious. I used it for a few days, but I found it a very poor, dumbed down and limiting computing experience in comparison to Linux. Most of the stuff that annoyed me in Vista is still there.

    There’s so much stuff that I take for granted now in Linux which is very badly implemented in Windows. I’m convinced now that their whole model is flawed, next time I get a laptop with a new Windows I won’t even waste my time trying it.

  • Avenue M

    @nachenko:

    …Microsoft is working hard to bring some fine products: The XBox 360 and Excel are two examples of things done right.

    History Lesson: (according to MS’s own website here and here)

    Excel 1.0 was written exclusively for the original Macintosh system in 1985 and the first Windows version of Excel didn’t appear until two years later in 1987.

    Bill Gates, 1984:

    the Mac is the only microcomputer beside the IBM PC worth writing software for.

    The first “popular” version of Windows (3.0) wasn’t released until 1990, six years after the first Mac’s were sold. That same year Mac’s OS was at version 6.0.5 with many important standard features that would not become part of Windows until years later.

    – “I think your reality check just bounced!”

  • Anonymous

    Windows 7 it doesn’t even have some of the basic applications like mail or chat, or programs to manage your photos

    Guess what, when they put e-mail software, browser, chat app, photo app. on your PC they end up in court (antitrust laws) so now they still offer all great apps for free like mail live, photos, messenger etc. but you have to download it and install…

    The first “popular” version of Windows (3.0) wasn’t released until 1990, six years after the first Mac’s were sold.

    if they had so great start, but still have so low % of the market – Hmmm so it must be something wrong with MAC LOL

  • Chirag Rana

    Basically MAC user, I turned to PC 10 years back. I end up spending most of my time fixing & upgrading with patches, firewall, anti virus, malware, bugs to feel secured.

    Then I turned to MAC OSX the most advance OS on earth. I still miss that windows simplicity and easiness such as explorer is way ahead then Finder. Resizing any windows from any corner, copy past the file path from explorer address bar, FTP from explorer or IE where I can rename cut/copy/past any file folder on remote server, and lot more…. and yes, my PC based mouse work best with right click option on OSX.

    So I decided to build my own PC with BEST hardware which cost me little less then MAC but still no luck. Same old windows problems.

    As a result I’m buying MAC Pro and use windows 7 with parallel. Mac Hardware, beauty & robustness + Windows easiness all in one place.

    I’m a Designer. I have emotional attachment with my Mac. But that’s not enough. I do need to accomplish my work without any hassle on ANY OS.

    Future? I’ll use Ubantu on my MAC once Adobe release 64bit CS5 or CS6 for Linux…..yes I’m waiting for those days.

  • http://www.lunadesign.org awasson

    Wow…. Nothing like a Win vs. Mac debate to unhinge the masses.

    My first Windows OS was Windows 2, then 3.11. I bought Win95 the day it released, beta tested 98, 2000, XP and have licenses for all of them. I also got XP the day it was available but dodged the Windows ME bullet. That said, My next computer will be a Mac.

    I made that decision partly because it will cost $120 to upgrade my 5 month old Vista laptop (which sucks ass) to Win7 whereas if I had to upgrade OSX 10.5 to 10.6 it would cost $35. I was excited about Windows 7 but enough is enough.

    Another consideration for going to a mac is an OS with much better display layer using Quartz. I am on my computer working sometimes 12 to 15 hours. We have Macs in our office and I find the visual experience of a Mac much better than Vista or XP.

  • Anonymous

    il est hakorder par me se site

  • Vlad

    Very good answers to Mr Croll :)
    Windows 7 and IE 8 are very good sofware! I like them!

  • http://www.lunadesign.org awasson

    @Bull

    Apple is just scared !

    Yes you must be right. They just suffered through their best quarterly earnings period ever in the history of the company and this is during the deepest financial downturn since the “Great Depression” of the 1930’s.

    So yes, they must be afraid. Very afraid… Maybe scared of being too successful : )

  • TnTornado

    Yes you must be right. They just suffered through their best quarterly earnings period ever in the history of the company and this is during the deepest financial downturn since the “Great Depression” of the 1930’s.

    Yes, and if you look, this is due greatly to the iphone and its success.

  • reishi

    nice article. thanks alot